US ponzi scheme - growth problems
- Thread starter cmdtytrdr
- Start date
Not from Hitler's view... his invasions of Europe were for the purpose of capturing their land and resources, to enslave the inhabitants of other countries to bend to the Nazi's will and pay taxes/tribute to the Reich. (If they didn't they were to be executed.). Hitler envisioned "the geographical boundaries of Europe becoming the boundaries of Germany"... NOTHING LIKE THAT IS POSSIBLY IN THE CARDS FOR WWIII.
I don't want to start a WWII debate, but I think Pat Buchanan's recent book on the subject brought up a lot of good points. WWII, I think, could also be attributed to a combination of England's overstretch (similar to our's today) and the excessively punitive treaty of Versailles. Was Hitler a madman? Yes. But a Madman such as Hitler is also a product of the environment.
So... were there not a Hitler, we'd have had WWII regardless?.. because of the "environment"? That is, all of Europe was "ripe for a takeover" by the first asshole to come along and recognize it? No way to know, but I think not.
I'm saying that without the Treaty of Versailles being so punitive, without England playing their divide and conquer game on the European Continent and colonial overreach... then yes, Hitler would have had a difficult time ascending as he did.
That's why after WWII even though we disarmed Japan and Germany, we also respected their manufacturing and potential economic might and thus integrated them into the "grand area" which allowed them to rise again. We didn't want to make the same mistake England did. We saw their value and created a "partnership" that would ensure they didn't go through what Germany did post WWI.
The US's handling of Germany and Japan post WWII, IMHO, is proof that England fukced up after WWI. And what happened to England? They became the US's little obedient doggie.
(Sorry my English friends... it's a bad habit we Americans have poking fun at you owing to that 1776 thing and you burning our White House in 1814 - but we're still cool, right?)
Wow! You've made a series of great posts on this thread.
Even stuff like 'texting" which has bulled RIMM and AAPL much of the year is decade plus old technology. And at heart, GOOG is nothing more than an electronic Yellow Pages. Unless one is a gamer or designer, there's been little tangible improvement in computing the past few years.
I've long felt that the 1990's was akin to the 1920's. Think of a decade that introduced radio, television, a phone in every home, a car in every driveway and yet a few years later-on the heels of all that innovation-a total, global depression.
Even stuff like 'texting" which has bulled RIMM and AAPL much of the year is decade plus old technology. And at heart, GOOG is nothing more than an electronic Yellow Pages. Unless one is a gamer or designer, there's been little tangible improvement in computing the past few years.
I've long felt that the 1990's was akin to the 1920's. Think of a decade that introduced radio, television, a phone in every home, a car in every driveway and yet a few years later-on the heels of all that innovation-a total, global depression.
Quote from Scataphagos:
{{Shouldn't be all that difficult. All we need is ONE new thing or service...
1. Must be new enough that almost nobody has it already.
2. Must be so appealing, everybody feels it's a "must have"... willing to give up some other things in their lives to have the new thing.
3. Must be able to be made/serviced ONLY in the USA.
4. Must pay $30/hr, minimum to workers, distributors and service providers. Also must not require a college education to get the $30/hr job.
That's it. Just ONE thing... and we could be golden again. }}
Bloom Energy Servers?
{{Shouldn't be all that difficult. All we need is ONE new thing or service...
1. Must be new enough that almost nobody has it already.
2. Must be so appealing, everybody feels it's a "must have"... willing to give up some other things in their lives to have the new thing.
3. Must be able to be made/serviced ONLY in the USA.
4. Must pay $30/hr, minimum to workers, distributors and service providers. Also must not require a college education to get the $30/hr job.
That's it. Just ONE thing... and we could be golden again. }}
Bloom Energy Servers?
It's interesting how much backlash this comment caused. It's something I've also thought of myself. I have to agree with others here that it would not have at all the same positive effects that it had during the great depression. However, that still doesn't rule out that this might be the natural progression of things for POLITICIANS. They may want war not to save the economy but perhaps as a complete diversion to save their asses and keep them in power.
People talked about hitler and germany in WWII. I'm not pretending to be a genius on all matters history and politics by any means, but have also read a lot on the subject. I have to agree with many historians that conclude that the pervasive terrible economic conditions in germany allowed and almost paved the way for someone such as hitler to rise.
let me throw a qoute out there: "nothing is so powerful as an idea who's time has come". (victor hugo)
I think the fact that the sullen, angry environment in Germany at the time certainly created a general anger and populism amongst the people that they turned to a madman such as hitler. sometimes i think (obviously could be nuts) that if it wasn't adolf hitler, some one else would have to assume that mantle in germany. People were pissed there, really pissed, and so when a young adolf hitler came in with radical new ideas people in germany were more willing and possibly eager to accept them than go with the status quo which they knew had left them with very little.
When hitler began to confiscate businesses and monies of successful jews in germany at the very least a blind eye was turned, if not partial delight amongst most germans. If economic times in Germany were booming, the populace would have never embraced such radical ideas as adolf hitler's.
Now, turning to us.
If things continue to deteriorate economically, I think we will see a move towards something more radical - undoubtedly. it's just a question of which direction we take. I believe (hope) america will not get too out of hand with it, but who knows. It may start in Spain, Italy, Greece, Iran etc where radicals are allowed to take over and the threat is brought to our soil and we have no choice but to go to war.
For us to initiate war (real war, not this afghanistan charade) I think economic times would have to get real bad. But then you'd see a shift in the political spectrum which we're already catching glimpses of. People want bankers heavily taxed and also jailed (which i fully understand and sympathize with not justifying - just pointing out the facts.) They want the rich to be taxed more, they want corporations to be taxed more. They're starting to really see the great divide between the haves and have nots, and the enormous further redistribution of wealth over the last couple years has only made them more irate.
I think obama's gonna go. It's possible someone like Ron Paul could have a real shot and maybe someone else with views once considered totally irrational and out of touch with the mainstream.
there are several ways it could play out. In ancient greece, caesar gave his ultra poor populace the gladiator fights which appeased them as they enjoyed watching blood be shed. They were pissed and while he and successive caesars enjoyed more commensurate wealth then he ever ever should have he knew (as politicians do today) that if he threw them a little bone maybe they'd quiet down a bit and he could keep his power.
Finally, i guess where I'm going with all this is my view is that we will definitely as a country start to move in a MUCH more radical direction as a result of continued economic malaise.
whether that means we go the angry (possibly violent) route and there is internal strife in america itself, between the haves and have nots that will result in huge taxes on the rich and corporations or we possibly set our sights on foreign soils I don't know. We might also face the threat that the economic climate somewhere else brings the fight to us, too (Iran is a prime example of an ultra poor populace so fed up and angry that they blame america, anything, for their misfortunes - it just happens. If the masses there were rich there probably wouldn't be an ahmadinejad in power.)
So, radical views I think will either manifest themselves in violence and outrage either domestically or abroad; or, another possible direction aluded to earlier in the thread: maybe we just stop caring.
it's more early-marxist i guess. but could potentially be a cool outcome if we are going to get radical. maybe people get fed up enough that they stop chasing money and gadgets that they don't believe they'll get anyway, and just try to enjoy their own lives more and america becomes less of an economic superpower but just a really cool amazing place to hangout. i'm thinking something 60's ish where we all basically say f*** the man, light up a fat joint, and tell the corporations to leech off of someone else.
either way, i think things are going to change a lot in the country.
sorry so long/