US on the socialist path.

[the1]

What you are referring to is a Democracy and I would argue that the US is not a true Democracy either. Yes, elections take place but Joe the Plumber could not run for office because he doesn't possess the millions of dollars it takes to hire an army of attorneys to plow through the mountain of paperwork that is required to file your candidacy. Yes, it is possible to overcome the obstacles to become an elected official but it is highly improbable unless you are born into the system or you come from an institution that can open the door to the system.

Merriam Webster defines a democracy, in part, as:

"a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections."

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/democracy

The word I question the most is, <b>free.</b> A few years back 60 minutes ran a piece on what it took to become an elected official and it was clear that the system was designed to prevent an average American citizen, whether qualified or not, from getting his or her foot through the door and onto the ballot. You either have to be wealthy or have wealthy people backing you. I will be the first to say there have been cases where this isn't true and non-wealthy individuals have made it to elected office but the odds of accomplishing this without friends in high places is nearly impossible.

Quote from piezoe:

You have used a specific example to try and disprove what is true in general. I am speaking particularly of the legislative process, not the executive. But what I have written is also valid for the executive branch of government in general, in so far as the chief executive is elected. You are referring to public servants not , elected politicians. Public servants do not make law, they are charged with carrying it out.

As I said above, we could all benefit from more introspective thinking.

 

[the1]

I wasn't referring specifically to Obama's administration but a number of administrations. Goldman has held positions in high offices for as long as I can recall. On point number 2 all I can do is agree.

I would suggest that pure capitalism is possible but only for a limited period of time because it evolves into a corporatist society because of the perception that the only people capable of running the country are the ones who have made it to high levels within their corporation. There was a time when a Corporation was granted a charter for only 10 years and only in the event that they could prove their line of business would benefit society as a whole. I don't entirely agree with that policy because economies and countries have to evolve but when a corporation becomes a permanent fixture in a society it will inevitably control some of the actions of that society when it becomes big and bad enough.

Quote from Scataphagos:

Perhaps not as many as you suppose.

1. Data shows the Odumba Administration is rife with academicians... collectively with the LEAST amount of business experience since at least T. Roosevelt.

2. It's one thing to "allow capitalists to make money"... it's yet another for government to allow winners to keep most of what they've earned.

 

[Scataphagos]

Quote from the1:

I wasn't referring specifically to Obama's administration but a number of administrations. Goldman has held positions in high offices for as long as I can recall. On point number 2 all I can do is agree.

I would suggest that pure capitalism is possible but only for a limited period of time because it evolves into a corporatist society because of the perception that the only people capable of running the country are the ones who have made it to high levels within their corporation. There was a time when a Corporation was granted a charter for only 10 years and only in the event that they could prove their line of business would benefit society as a whole. I don't entirely agree with that policy because economies and countries have to evolve but when a corporation becomes a permanent fixture in a society it will inevitably control some of the actions of that society when it becomes big and bad enough.

A lot of folks glom onto the notion of "big corporation, evil/corporation's influence on government". No doubt there is some truth to it.

Those same people, however, nearly always fail to see the evil in the social aspects of a society and culture.

America has been great financially and economically primarily because of Capitalistic culture and Constitutional restraints on government. But over the last 100 years, we've drifted ever further left. Now, America seems very near the "cusp"... the tipping point where the social and government aspects become too much of a load for the private sector to bear in a healthy manner. The only outcome, then, is some form of "Statism"... Communism, Marxism, Socialism... whatever the flavor.

Personally, I believe America as a Capitalistic economy and society is already "past the point of no return", sadly.

 

[the1]

Sadly I agree.

Quote from Scataphagos:

A lot of folks glom onto the notion of "big corporation, evil/corporation's influence on government". No doubt there is some truth to it.

Those same people, however, nearly always fail to see the evil in the social aspects of a society and culture.

America has been great financially and economically primarily because of Capitalistic culture and Constitutional restraints on government. But over the last 100 years, we've drifted ever further left. Now, America seems very near the "cusp"... the tipping point where the social and government aspects become too much of a load for the private sector to bear in a healthy manner. The only outcome, then, is some form of "Statism"... Communism, Marxism, Socialism... whatever the flavor.

Personally, I believe America as a Capitalistic economy and society is already "past the point of no return", sadly.

 

[piezoe]

Excuse me guys, but isn't this rather bizarre trading today. Have you glanced at the NYSE breadth? That why I find myself over here chatting with Ya'all rather than making my usual million. Are we going to make 1200 now or are we topping out here at 1195? apparently we are going to top out. Oh when oh when will the illusive 1200 be hit. Perhaps tonight.

 

[Visaria]

Either it's going to smash up or it's going to collapse. Odds favour a breakout to the upside, however I'm positioned short on various markets, v good risk /reward.

If it does break higher, than I'll be stopped out and will reverse.

 

[piezoe]

Quote from Visaria:

Either it's going to smash up or it's going to collapse. Odds favour a breakout to the upside, however I'm positioned short on various markets, v good risk /reward.

If it does break higher, than I'll be stopped out and will reverse.

my thinking as well.

 

[piezoe]

Quote from the1:

Sadly I agree.

It is good, don't you think? to keep in mind that if we were raised in the USA we will have a certain mindset, something about our formative years, and we should make an effort to be aware of that.

We did not get bombed into the dust and consequently it is a little too easy to think we are superior, when in fact we are no different than the other guy... well, little different anyway.

 

[Random.Capital]

Quote from Visaria:

Either it's going to smash up or it's going to collapse.

Too many people bullish on volatility. Contrarian play is to expect nothing to happen, and VIX to shrink back to down sub-15 over the next six months.

 

[saxon22]

Quote from piezoe:

Actually it is illegal, against federal law, to hire undocumented workers (i.e., those in the country illegally). However this is weakly enforced law. Recently, for example, Howard industries in Ellisville Mississippi was fined for having a large number of illegals working for them. This is the second time they have been caught and fined, however the fine, a few hundred thousand in the most recent case I believe, is apparently insufficient to make the practice of hiring illegals unprofitable.

Certainly, if there were well enforced, stiff penalties for hiring illegals, the problem of illegals entering the country would undoubtedly dissipate. At the same time, the price of produce, chicken, and other goods largely handled by illegals would rise.

Price of chicken in Norway for 1 kg (around 2 pounds of it): 30 KO = $5. So the pound would be around 2.50 to 3 greebacks a pound. Last time I checked my Pathmark was charging around $2 per pound. Is the difference that much? It comes to 30% but it comes without all that nasty stuff our chicken are exposed to unless you go for organic which would cost you about the same as in Norway.

I much rather pay extra for some stuff and not pay to keep a bloated prison, police, and other security systems feeding on my tax dollar year after year.

BTW it is interesting to see that some poor slacker who downloaded and shared some songs using internet is being penalized over 1 million dollars for this crime and our system cannot do the same for the companies employing illegals. Ask yourself why the justice is so harsh on her and so lenient on the companies and you will see who really is running the US, who holds the power and who is really benefiting.

BTW next time you have an accident with somebody without papers and insurance who the same day is going to disappear on the other side of the border, ask your self if the 50cent reduction on your chicken is worth your life. Or perhaps the next time somebody stab your son after school and swings for the border, you will think twice about enjoying the benefits of cheap services and whether they are worth it.