US occupation plans for Iraq?

Originally posted by rs7


Tolerant? Maybe. But still..... To force the naming of a child seems to imply a limit of "tolerance". Correct me if I am misinformed.

rs7
More...

whoa there...
this is straying from the point completely.
forgive me for the partial quote rs7 but I made an important correction on a statement put forward as fact by traderfut2000 - that the French say no to mosques. That is patently untrue.
I purposely encased the word tolerant inside inverted commas because tolerance can always be judged by degree.
For such a devout catholic culture to "tolerate" mosques shows tolerance, and they are tolerant. Yes there are racists in France and yes they make the headlines but as a democratic country their latest election displayed tolerance. They could be more tolerant but that is not the point I raised.
Everywhere can be improved. France greatly improved. But so too could the attitude of people like traderfut , who apparently see all Islam Muslims as generally good and all Western Civilization as generally bad judging by the things he is prepared to say.
It is wrong to declare places like France as racist period. Like most people the people of France as a whole are certainly not so.

1 people out of 5 voted le pen? …. Then 4 out of five didn’t - for goodness sakes
 
LMFAO

has anyone solved the world's problems yet? if not it is not from lack of POSTS! damn, about 12 pages since yesterday.

traderfut you are a posting machine! where do you find time to trade?
 
Originally posted by rs7


Well, they may be "good" people, but they have a strong tendency to be quite RUDE!!

I spent quite a bit of time in France. I worked for a while in Monte Carlo. I think I once went through this before on ET. In Paris they did not like my accent, and ignored me when I asked for directions. In Cannes, (or maybe it was Marseilles r Nice, I don't remember exactly), I asked for white ice cream because i couldn't remember the word for vanilla (which, ironically is vanille). And they were not only non responsive, but they were rude, and nasty. And they caused myself and my wife quite a bit of discomfort.


Peace,
rs7
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That happens everywhere and it is unlike you to split an argument like this. I have witnessed more than my fair share of rudeness in similar ways from the British, Americans, French and Spanish.


Thanks for the responses folks but I am out of here. I have no axe to grind as I said before.
 
TF2000,

So according to you the Spanish asked to be conquered and ruled over by the Muslims....who then offered them generous surrender terms and created a utopian civilization where culture and science reigned in peace. Lets assume this is correct.

ok, then answer me this:

Why did the Spanish fight back and push back the Muslims if they were so happy under them?
 
Please have you read the post.. according to you arab persecuted and raped spanish according to historian and basically I brought several pieces explaining that they did not colonise so brutally and were even called by spanish themselves to deliver them from the oppresor visigoth...

Here is the link :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/spain/spain2.shtml

Reasons
One reason for the rapid Muslim success was the generous surrender terms that they offered the people, which contrasted with the harsh conditions imposed by the previous Visigoth rulers

The ruling Islamic forces were made up of different nationalities, and many of the forces were converts with uncertain motivation, so the establishment of a coherent Muslim state was not easy.
 
Originally posted by Babak
ok, then answer me this:

Why did the Spanish fight back and push back the Muslims if they were so happy under them?
More...

In the same link you have the answer to this question :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/spain/spain4.shtml

Pressures
The collapse of Islamic rule in Spain was due not only to increasing aggression on the part of Christian states, but to divisions among the Muslim rulers. The rot came from both the centre and the extremities.

Early in the eleventh century, the single Islamic Caliphate had shattered into a score of small kingdoms, ripe for picking-off. The first big Islamic centre to fall to Christianity was Toledo in 1085.

So 2 reasons:

1/ attacks from christian states : France, Italy... You may have heard of the crusades
2/ division among thmeselves. it was not a united country but a congregation of people fighting each other..

Hope you have all your answers.
 
lol, we are talking about the french now.

If you are an arab and you move to france and expect to recreate Iraq in a neighborhood of paris, you will have some people tell you to go home, and I think rightly so.

If you are a frenchman and you move to Iraq, you could DIE.

Big difference I'd say, and any arabs calling the french racist are bigtime hypocrites.
 
Stu,

You are right. I should certainly not accuse the French of being intolerant. They are not. I only said they were "rude'. Big difference. I am a New Yorker, and I know we are considered a "rude" group. (A bit less so since 9/11/01).

My feelings when I spent time in France, mosty in the 80's were just that the people seemed to lack "patience" for the most part with my accent. I probably just should have stuck with english, and maybe I would have been less frustrated.

Truth is, it seemed that the Parisian people and the people in the south of France had the "attitude". I didn't find the people elsewhere in France to have the same attitude. I was in Chamonix for 2 weeks, and the people could not have been friendlier. Same in Lyons. Same in the north and in Belgium where French is one of the official languages (don't know a word of Flemish).

Overall, I would have to say that "tolerance" is really a strong point of the French in the sense Traderfut is talking about. There seems to be no apparent color barriers. The ability to build and attend mosques in France speaks volumes. And another great point is the comparison of France's freedoms compared to those of so many of the Arab countries. Imagine building a Cathedral or Synagogue in Iraq, or Saudi Arabia.

Sort of like my statement that if in the middle east, if the arabs put down their arms, there would be no more war. If the Israelis put down their arms, there would be no more Israel.

It is very hard to reason with the Arab world sometimes. Too bad. Eventually they will have to join us, beat us, or succumb to peaceful co-existence with the rest of the civilized world. So far they refuse to consider anything short of "beating" us. And it seems it isn't clear to them yet that this will never happen. Until they come to their senses, they will always be cast-outs in the civilized world. (Not all arabs, not even all arab nations. Just the militant middle eastern nations that border the disputed "holy lands"). Until they permit freedom of speech, and religion, they will always be backward, unsettled, impoverished, uneducated, and uncivilized places with no fair chance for equality among all it's citizens.

rs7
 
You haven't changed my friend. :)
Always so bright and clever

Thanks a lot for your bright analysis

Really Thank you the world needs more people like you with so great an analytical mind...


You are our saviour

TF
 
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