US occupation plans for Iraq?

If the USA oil companies had not imposed their evil will on East Timor to secure East Timorese oil supplies whilst leaving East Timor poor, then the revenge terror attack against Westerners in Indonesia's Bali may not have occurred... the West has a lot to answer for, by continuing to terrorise, oppress and steal, it is merely sowing the future seeds of future revenge terror... so the West in general and the USA in particular must bear partial responsibility for the devastating effects on Western civilians of revenge terror attacks... the hands of the US policy makers are as dirty as the hands of the people doing revenge terror against the USA and its interests... both sides are equally disgusting... God Bless Humanity...
 
Yes I was horrified after what happened in Indonesia ...
More innocent people dying.. There are fucking crazy people on this planet and the role of the USA should be to dismantle the terrorists infrastructures and search actively for Bin Laden instead of killing again more innocents in IRAQ and creating the grounds fOR more terrorists...

There is no military Solution for this conflict.. It is more structural..

Just look at Israel .. It is by far the most powerful country in the middle East and this is more than 35 years that this conflict last that they are at war with palestinian... If they don't reach a peace agreement it will continue forever... And the worse is that both party belive she is right... The USA has to force its ally, Israel to comply with UN resolution and stop shitting around...

I am sure that after that, the USA wil be respected and that new grounds will be built for a more peaceful planet... If not there are many crazy that are ready to enroll... and it facilitates Oussama's job...

By the way ??? Where is Oussama.. Everybody is speaking about Saddam but where the fuck is Oussama????
 
Originally posted by candletrader
If the USA oil companies had not imposed their evil will on East Timor to secure East Timorese oil supplies whilst leaving East Timor poor, then the revenge terror attack against Westerners in Indonesia's Bali may not have occurred... the West has a lot to answer for, by continuing to terrorise, oppress and steal, it is merely sowing the future seeds of future revenge terror... so the West in general and the USA in particular must bear partial responsibility for the devastating effects on Western civilians of revenge terror attacks... the hands of the US policy makers are as dirty as the hands of the people doing revenge terror against the USA and its interests... both sides are equally disgusting... Gos Bless Humanity...
More...

very true.

cause and effect, so to speak.
 
Originally posted by traderfut2000
There are fucking crazy people on this planet and the role of the USA should be to dismantle the terrorists infrastructures and search actively for Bin Laden instead of killing again more innocents in IRAQ and creating the grounds fOR more terrorists...

There is no military Solution for this conflict.. It is more structural..

Just look at Israel .. It is by far the most powerful country in the middle East and this is more than 35 years that this conflict last that they are at war with palestinian... If they don't reach a peace agreement it will continue forever... And the worse is that both party belive she is right... The USA has to force its ally, Israel to comply with UN resolution and stop shitting around...

I am sure that after that, the USA wil be respected and that new grounds will be built for a more peaceful planet... If not there are many crazy that are ready to enroll... and it facilitates Oussama's job...
More...

i really couldn't agree more !

without tackling the underlying causes we will forever be fiddling around with symptoms.

and, as any physician worth their salt should know, that just doesn't do the trick.
 
One of my cousin's good friends was among the wounded at the Bali blast (though not seriously, thank God)! Even scarier, I spent my honeymoon last December in Bali and visited the same club that was bombed. I remember how my tourist guide kept mentioning how safe Bali was because most of the people were peace-loving Hindus. So much for that theory.

If Muslim extremists were indeed responsible for this act of terrorism, then I can think of nothing more that will rally the world to the US cause. Invasion of countries suspected of harboring terrorists will become justified and I'm all for it.
I'm sure you won't get any argument from the Aussies.

It is the responsibility of the US, given its economic and military clout, to take a lead role in the world's affairs in rooting out this evil. Everyone looks to the US for financial aid and humanitarian support. Well, the price of this support doesn't come cheap. Let the US break out the whooping stick and sort the names out later!!

___________
Semper Fi
 
The thing is they have no real arguments and Bush put the pressure on CIA and FBI to find evidence...
This guy is a real mess...
Hope the american public will understand his evil aims..



I doubt Unfortunately the general public is pretty dumb. Generally they cant understand the complexities of geopolitics let alone understand the solutions so they are presented all too easily with simplistic remedies.
 
Originally posted by marcD


Saudi Arabia is a disgrace to mankind. But again, it is just the royal family for the most part. Unfortunately, the way of life there breeds the kind of contempt that gives birth to terrorists.

There is just too much hatred in the world. The only real way to overcome it in these backward 3rd world countries is with education, money and a cessation of kissing up to the leaders of these corrupt regimes because of oil.

There are no easy answers. Hatred is obviously an irrational emotion that can be exploited by leaders everywhere. Look here at home in the US. Guys like Smokey and Dotslash and Max are our equivalent of the kind of fanatics we worry about over there. Luckily for us, they are contained here by our society. We must figure out a way to enlighten the populace of the middle east so that the hatred will subside. It is a tough chore to accomplish in lands where so many have so little. And so few have so much. They need to be led out of the 8th century. Education and money are the keys, but implementing strategy is very complex. This is why we really need to evolve our tactics. When bombing doesn't work; when conventional warfare becomes counterproductive, it means taking the time to figure out how to successfully achieve our goals.


MD
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right, well put.

unfortunately common sense, decency and the necessary backbone needed for far sighted and effective problem solving seem to be in exceedingly short supply among most us politicians in the current, alas also many former, administrations, not however many officials from the military, diplomatic and intelligence services.

the method of choice for said politicians seems to be gunslinging and warmonging, mere counterproductive showmanship that is actually little more than a largely futile attempt at fiddling with symptoms, and whose chief effect is an aggravation of the underlying problem.

keeping democracy and commensurate human rights and basic freedom at bay in oil sheikhdoms by propping up incredibly corrupt and evil regimes is not an incredibly effective or even remotely comprehensible method to convince the populations of those countries that we stand for democracy and want to be their friends.

let's not forget the extremely narrow context of the whole artificial debate coming mainly from those in washington without combat experience, as indeed many in the military, diplomatic and intelligence communities are not in favor of an armed attack against saddam.

the conflict has to be seen in the context of a larger question: does this intervention break, or at least impede, the cycle of violence in which terrorism is only the latest turn? or, by affirming the inevitability of violence, does this war prepare the ground for the next one? by unleashing such massive firepower, do we make potential enemies even more likely to try to match it with the very weapons of mass destruction we so dread? alas, the answer is, as ever, clear. just witness the vicious cycle the israelis and palestinians have been engaging in for decades, violence that does not address underlying causes just begets fresh violence.

an ''overwhelming' exercise of us power is merely a crude reinforcement of the worst impulse of human history - but this is the nuclear age, and that impulse simply must be checked. this old style us warmonging is unwise in the extreme, and if other nations - pakistan, india, israel, russia, et al? - begin to play according to the rules of ''dead or alive,'' the true ramboesque and counterproductive to the extreme nature of the "model" being touted by a small circle of of political warmongers in washington becomes ever more evident and self-explanatory.

The Guardian

White House 'exaggerating Iraqi threat'

Bush's televised address attacked by US intelligence

President Bush's case against Saddam Hussein, outlined in a televised address to the nation on Monday night, relied on a slanted and sometimes entirely false reading of the available US intelligence, government officials and analysts claimed yesterday.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,807286,00.html

---------------------------------------

The New York Times

C.I.A. Warns That a U.S. Attack May Ignite Terror

...But a new element was injected into the debate by a C.I.A. assessment that Saddam Hussein, while now stopping short of an attack, could become "much less constrained" if faced with an American-led force.

The judgment was contained in a letter signed by the deputy C.I.A. director, John McLaughlin, on behalf of George J. Tenet, the director of central intelligence. It was alluded to in a hearing of a Congressional panel investigating the Sept. 11 attacks and then released tonight, after the House opened its debate on Iraq.

The letter said "Baghdad for now appears to be drawing a line short of conducting terrorist attacks" with conventional or chemical or biological weapons against the United States.

"Should Saddam conclude that a U.S.-led attack could no longer be deterred, he probably would become much less constrained in adopting terrorist action," it continued. It noted that Mr. Hussein could use either conventional terrorism or a weapon of mass destruction as "his last chance to exact vengeance by taking a large number of victims with him..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/09/international/middleeast/09IRAQ.html

------------------------------------------------

brent scowcroft, national security advisor to presidents gerald ford & george bush senior:
Don't Attack Saddam
It would undermine our antiterror efforts
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110002133
 
Goldenarm,

I am very sorry to hear about your cousin's friends. US foreign policy is at least partially to blame for this tragedy.

Letting the US "break out the whopping stick" is absolutely the worst thing that can happen, cos its whooping stick will simply be used to steal more natural resources, install more puppet governments and create more hatred.

Gradually, the average American needs to wake up to the evil that constitutes a large proportion of American foreign policy. Things must change from within the USA to have a real effect. The majority of the international community would agree on this... the USA has big problems and must seek to rectify its international policy of terror, coercion and manipulation as soon as possible, to prevent the world descending into an abyss of terror and counter-terror... for starters, the USA must not stand in the way of Russia taking on Chechnya, India taking on Pakistan, Iraq maintaining her territorial integrity, China reabsorbing Taiwan, the Saudis and other Arab states choosing their own leaders, the Arabs expunging the US military occupation of their territories, the Kyoto Treaty, the withdrawal of illegal sanctions on European goods, the withdrawal of numerous US-backed puppets from the global scene allowing people to choose their own leaders etc etc... only when America lays off the international community will the international community lay off America... until and unless the USA gives the world its freedom, the world will not relent to give the USA a major kick up its fat ass (America may call this ass-kicking terrorism, but the majority of the international community will call this ass-kicking revenge for American terror)... unless things change from within the walls of Washington, America will continue to be the most despised, hated and reviled country on this planet in living memory... God Bless America...

Candle
 
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