US occupation plans for Iraq?

Originally posted by traderfut2000
Did I say that the arab countries were better than the USA????

I doubt it..

Daniel said to me that women rights were no respected in arab states, and my answer was how can you be so sure..Women vote, women study, women participate to the civil society.. and women are in parliament, and even prime minsters..It is more an american Fantasy that believes that ther are no rights for women in arab countries. Please let me rectify and say this is a wrong statement...No let's take rape, pedophilia ... the statistics in the US are just horrifying.. I am not judging.. But it is easy to criticize other parts of the world..

Now a lot has to be done. But please don't take the argument that women has no rights to invade Iraq. For me just a nonsense...
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Ok, understood. And rape and pedophilia is a deplorable thing no matter where it happens. But here we look to jail, punish and even kill those who do those things. Those who harm children are not even safe in jail. They have to usually be placed under watch as the other inmates might exact punishment. Our laws are clear, these things are wrong. And there are people who do wrong. And they are punished here.

Answer this for me, why do Arab women have all the restrictions applied on them today? Why do Arab men who kidnap American girls and children face no legal punishment in their country? And why do they expect us to honor their desires in that regard?

In many Arab countries it seems that it is ok if violations are against women, young girls and children. And that is not right either. When will they meet the punishment they deserve? Do you advocate that we just let it be because they religiously feel/believe it is ok? :)
 
Please give me an example where the USA intervened to place a democratic governement.. after the second world war..

Put aside, Japan and Europe, where it was more geopolitical than anything else...

Give me one example where the US intervened to replace a dictatorship by a democracy...

As far as I know 0 example...

I would be delighted to hear just one example..

You know what... it always make me laugh as a third world citizen to hear the USA delivered the world from the nazis...

Once I was in hyde park in London and one great black Jamaican speaker said.. We are talking about a world war but it was just a white war...

After the second world war many countries in Africa and Asia were still colonised and "for us" the nazis were french and british not german... They did carnages till the sixties... Where were the USA at that time??????? the texts of that time even written by leftists on colonised countries were like the one of a far right party today... Crazy isnt it... It was something like we will civilize the savage...

Open your mind and analyse history from another standpoint...
In Algeria for instance, more than 2 million people were killed by french troops. The French were something like 5% of the population and owned 95% of the country... and they colonised Algeria during 140 years...

It is a whole part of our history that is hidden... and the USA did not attack France or the UK to stop them oppressing and exploiting people the way it was done..
 
In many Arab countries it seems that it is ok if violations are against women, young girls and children. And that is not right either. When will they meet the punishment they deserve? Do you advocate that we just let it be because they feel it is ok?

Could you be more specific??? there are laws that apply in many arab countries.. Of course don't take the extreme like Saudia Arabia...

But concerning children there are even problems in Europe.. if a german steal his child from his french woman and take him back to germany the woman can't do anything to have her child back... this is law as stupid as it may seem... Now concerning children you have cases on both sides.. But I am not specialised on that matter..
 
In many Arab countries it seems that it is ok if violations are against women, young girls and children. And that is not right either. When will they meet the punishment they deserve? Do you advocate that we just let it be because they religiously feel/believe it is ok?

People are punished like anywhere else.. there are also prisons and there is alos law...

But as you may know there are so many arab countries that the situation may differ from one to the other...

Peace
 
To even attempt to defend the treatment of women in Arab/Muslim countries is laughable. Facts speak for themselves.

Women have to wear prohibitive clothing lest they 'arouse' other men. They have no right to make important decisions (marriage, divorce, children/abortion, etc.). Their lives are dictated to them from the men in their family. Be it a father, older brother or husband. Many are married off by without any say or choice, even before puberty. They can not leave the house, go on a trip, etc. by themselves. They have no or little legal rights in the Islamic justive system. And on and on.....

Anyone can read the Quran and find explicit statements which are the source of such abusive treatment.

Personally,I believe, it is one (of many) reasons why Arab or Muslim societies have problems (social, economic, ets.). It in effect causes one half of the population to lack freedom, and a voice. Women are a powerful and necessary force in the world. Yet they are muzzled and their worth is denigrated to that of a cook/house cleaner.

But the topic of this thread is the potential occupation of Iraq by the US/Allied forces. Is this a good thing? I would say yes because the US has shown over and over again that in similar scenarios it has been a source of positive change.

Mark my words. There will be dancing in the streets of Baghdad when US tanks roll in and Saddam is toppled. Just like there was in Kabul.

Then where will the Islamic extremists find their excuses to bash the US?

Where are they now when they were just months ago yelling themselves hoarse over the same thing in Afghanistan? Instead the people have embraced US and are working with them to rebuild their shattered lives.

God bless humanity.
 
Originally posted by traderfut2000
Please give me an example where the USA intervened to place a democratic governement.. after the second world war..

Put aside, Japan and Europe, where it was more geopolitical than anything else...Give me one example where the US intervened to replace a dictatorship by a democracy... As far as I know 0 example...

But you see, that's just it. You can't put them aside and treat them as though they didn't happen. They did! Both Japan and Europe. And since you say there have never been any successful occurrances of changing the government flair in the past, this would be great time to do it right. As the only standing superpower, we could implement some things without intervention from another so-called superpower.
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Once I was in hyde park in London and one great black Jamaican speaker said.. We are talking about a world war but it was just a white war...

Hmm, interesting comment. That would also be a valid argument to pose as the combatants in any era and arena don't involve everyone. Using his logic, I should not be concerned or interested in the outcome of the India-Palestine conflict. After all, as an African American it truly has no bearing on me should they nuke themselves away from here.
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After the second world war many countries in Africa and Asia were still colonised and "for us" the nazis were french and british not german... They did carnages till the sixties... Where were the USA at that time??????? the texts of that time even written by leftists on colonised countries were like the one of a far right party today... Crazy isnt it... It was something like we will civilize the savage...

But we also need to stop reliving the past and strive to make the corrections faster today. For many in those regions today, the war still continues and I would hope that this new posture of intervention will now spread. There are many peoples of the world that need to be freed.
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Open your mind and analyse history from another standpoint...
In Algeria for instance, more than 2 million people were killed by french troops. The French were something like 5% of the population and owned 95% of the country... and they colonised Algeria during 140 years... It is a whole part of our history that is hidden... and the USA did not attack France or the UK to stop them oppressing and exploiting people the way it was done..

So now, we start. Don't impede our progress. Help us correct the problems and direct/effect the cures, CORRECTLY! Especially since we have stated that we will do so with, or without help. Get on board, the train is leaving! :)
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Originally posted by traderfut2000
Please give me an example where the USA intervened to place a democratic governement.. after the second world war..

Put aside, Japan and Europe, where it was more geopolitical than anything else...

Give me one example where the US intervened to replace a dictatorship by a democracy...

As far as I know 0 example...

I would be delighted to hear just one example..
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TF2000,

gird your loins because I am about to 'delight' you with just what you asked. One example of the US intervening after the second world war (putting aside Japan and Europe) to place a democratic government:

(are you ready? have you girded your loins?)



Haiti 1991



(for details you may wish to acquaint yourself with modern history a bit more -- try a google search)

And may I say that I am delighted to have delighted you today!

:)
 
Originally posted by traderfut2000
Could you be more specific??? there are laws that apply in many arab countries.. Of course don't take the extreme like Saudia Arabia...

But concerning children there are even problems in Europe.. if a german steal his child from his french woman and take him back to germany the woman can't do anything to have her child back... this is law as stupid as it may seem... Now concerning children you have cases on both sides.. But I am not specialised on that matter..
More...

But you see, you can't take Saudi Arabia off the table! That is the problem, no one wants to offend them and deal with the issues. They are committing the crimes. That is where a part of the problems originate. We can not address Iraq, and have the Saudi problems be left alone because of friendship. That is the very hypocritical behavior that has gone on far too long. Now is the time to stop ALLOWING wrong. It IS time to address wrong EVERYWHERE and say, "No More!" And mean it about everyone.

The crime of child abduction is not correct wherever it occurs. You are making my point again. In your example you used the word steal. That implies that a law was broken. It is time for human rights to be the same everywhere. There needs to be a common thread no matter where you are in whatever country. There should be some universal wrongs that are observed by everyone. Be it in Germany, France, Saudi Arabia, and yes, America! I don't want you to respect America because we have the biggest stick. I want you to respect us because we started doing the right thing, even when it hurts! :)
 
Stop being One sided...

Haiti (hahahahaha) what about pakistan 3 years ago. Musharaf made a coup. Today he is encouraged by the USA..

What about zaire. they killed Lumumba and put Moboutou...

What about Venezuela lately... the CIA tried to eliminate their president and to replace him with a US friendly leader. Yet the people of venezuela stood and said no we want our president..

More what about Afghansitan.. the general Massoud visisted several western states asking them to help him fight the taliban.. You know what happened , massoud was killed and the taliban were welcomes in the white house... Because of oil..

What I said about women in arab world is right in all countries
except saudia arabia/koweit..

they vote in all the othe arab counries and they are not obliged to hide their face unless they want to do so. Which in that case is not an obligation.. Like the sisters in the catholic religion.

The thing is you always take the worst example of arab muslim countries and you generalize... There are many progressists in arab/muslim countries... But there are also places (afghanistan, Iran, Saudia ...) where women have no/few rights..

If you don't recognize that then you are lying and insulting all those people.. They are not what you believe they are...

Now of course, when talking about women, you forget talking about Japan, China, India, and many other african countries where women and men are very far from being equal..

More than that when did the women have the right the vote in France for instance??? In the fifties.. I don't know for the USA...

In some great colleges like polytechnique (equivalent of the US MIT) women did have an access only in 1974... Can you imagine that...

It is only in the last 25 years that women acquired rights in western countries... Don't forget that..

And apart from the countries I mentioned women in muslim countries are active everywhere and vote, work....

Concerning religion, Islam is the first religion that recognised the right of women. Christianism did not even consider woman as a human being... Even in the Kuran it is said that women and men are complimentary.. In te bible it is said that women are there to serve men... period...
 
Only if the USA withdraws its forces from the many countries that it is currently occupying with puppet regimes and military bases can global hatred for US foreign policy be reduced... may God Bless the American people and may God fuck the American policy makers...
 
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