US National Debt

fbbi0 · Jan 22, 2004

Debt: $7,008,318,270,477

Your family's share $111,613

Current Fiscal Year Yr: $607,453,502,767

Clock parameters updated Wed Dec 31 2003
http://www.toptips.com/debtclock.html

Up to last minute
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

ig0r · Jan 22, 2004

Quote from fbbi0:

Debt: $7,008,318,270,477

Your family's share $111,613

Current Fiscal Year Yr: $607,453,502,767

Clock parameters updated Wed Dec 31 2003
http://www.toptips.com/debtclock.html

Up to last minute
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

You wish! National debt stands closer to 30 trillion (!!), you'll need to look a little closer

fbbi0 · Jan 22, 2004

Quote from ig0r:

You wish! National debt stands closer to 30 trillion (!!), you'll need to look a little closer

I hear you. It's really worst than 30 trillion if you consider the following,

The $44 trillion hole?
Recent study says Social Security, Medicare shortfalls could be far bigger than previously thought.
May 29, 2003: 3:46 PM EDT
http://money.cnn.com/2003/05/29/news/economy/social_security_pain/index.htm

Who's gonna pay for it? Soon if not already, the total GDP won't be enough to even service the debt. House o cards?

noddyboy · Jan 22, 2004

Quote from fbbi0:

I hear you. It's really worst than 30 trillion if you consider the following,

The $44 trillion hole?
Recent study says Social Security, Medicare shortfalls could be far bigger than previously thought.
May 29, 2003: 3:46 PM EDT
http://money.cnn.com/2003/05/29/news/economy/social_security_pain/index.htm

Who's gonna pay for it? Soon if not already, the total GDP won't be enough to even service the debt. House o cards?

This isn't like a credit card debt that has to be paid off you know. Why is there an obsession with paying it off anyway? If creditors think that the debt is really a big concern, interest rates won't be so low. And while interest rates are so long, isn't it good that America is borrowing cheap money and investing it in America? Also, a large percentage of the debt is internal. If your dad borrowed from your mom who then spends it on your mom, what is the big concern?

Okay. Things are quite so simple. There is probably lots of things wrong about what I just said. But precisely, things aren't so simple. So let's look into it more before crying wolf. Are there successful countries with no debt that we want to follow?

fbbi0 · Jan 23, 2004

Quote from noddyboy:

This isn't like a credit card debt that has to be paid off you know. Why is there an obsession with paying it off anyway? If creditors think that the debt is really a big concern, interest rates won't be so low. And while interest rates are so long, isn't it good that America is borrowing cheap money and investing it in America? Also, a large percentage of the debt is internal. If your dad borrowed from your mom who then spends it on your mom, what is the big concern?

Okay. Things are quite so simple. There is probably lots of things wrong about what I just said. But precisely, things aren't so simple. So let's look into it more before crying wolf. Are there successful countries with no debt that we want to follow?

borrowing from mom (with her consent) is one thing... borrowing from the unborn children and grand children is another.

who are the creditors?

Covertibility · Jan 23, 2004

Quote from noddyboy:

This isn't like a credit card debt that has to be paid off you know. Why is there an obsession with paying it off anyway? If creditors think that the debt is really a big concern, interest rates won't be so low. And while interest rates are so long, isn't it good that America is borrowing cheap money and investing it in America? Also, a large percentage of the debt is internal. If your dad borrowed from your mom who then spends it on your mom, what is the big concern?

Okay. Things are quite so simple. There is probably lots of things wrong about what I just said. But precisely, things aren't so simple. So let's look into it more before crying wolf. Are there successful countries with no debt that we want to follow?

So when do the goldbugs reveal themselves and then tell us we hold worthless paper in our pockets?

pspr · Jan 23, 2004

Send me the bill. I'll print some money and pay it off.

noddyboy · Jan 23, 2004

Quote from fbbi0:

borrowing from mom (with her consent) is one thing... borrowing from the unborn children and grand children is another.

who are the creditors?

Some of the creditors are other government agencies.

noddyboy · Jan 23, 2004

Quote from pspr:

Send me the bill. I'll print some money and pay it off.

Certainly possible. And Japan would not let the US currency depreciate, so at least Japan will burden part of the cost! Ah, so free money. Why are we complaining?

noddyboy · Jan 23, 2004

Quote from fbbi0:

borrowing from mom (with her consent) is one thing... borrowing from the unborn children and grand children is another.

who are the creditors?

I am not sure if I got this right, but I am pretty sure (read on Bloomberg) that the bond market grew much faster than the federal debt in the recent years, so as a percentage, the US govt is borrowing less of the total debt market. And it is important for the US govt to be present in the debt market because it serves as a benchmark and aids price discovery.

An argument for less federal borrow is the crowding out effect. If the goverment borrows too much, other people find it harder to borrow, since there is more competition for lenders. This percentage of total debt arguement shows this is not so.