US Marines just deployed on the ground inside Syria

[Cuddles]

Why? Sure he was an evil dictator but I have come to accept that some places need evil dictators to keep order.Saddam kept Iraq orderly,terrorist groups out and he kept Iran in check.Far more people have died since Saddam was ousted than during his entire dictatorship.I'm hoping Assad regains and keeps control of Syria,it will be far worse if he's gone imo.

I'm not sure I buy that argument, seems like an idea brought about by the right wing during Obama's term (even if Bush started the conflict). Again, Iraq was not done in the way I wished had been done (invasions only galvanize the population against the occupying force). I was against the Iraq war from the beginning btw, and leaving was just as bad. If the US is going to carpet bomb a country as was done in Iraq, we should stick to it and see it through as we did in Germany, Japan and S. Korea.

As to why, I see it from the shoes of those oppressed who may want what you and I want, but can't have it because some asshole says so.

My point exactly.

I don't expect America to be the most popular, or the most liked, I expect it to step up when the situation calls for it, if we pick up enemies for doing the right thing, so be it.

(again, not saying invading Iraq was doing the right thing, but taking out Saddam sure as hell was). I don't drink the patriotism kool aid and blindly support each and every conflict either, the counter communist actions in S America were uncalled for in the most part, though I like to think the death toll could've been higher had more commies taken hold down there.

 

[Tony Stark]

I'm not sure I buy that argument, seems like an idea brought about by the right wing during Obama's term (even if Bush started the conflict). Again, Iraq was not done in the way I wished had been done (invasions only galvanize the population against the occupying force). I was against the Iraq war from the beginning btw, and leaving was just as bad. If the US is going to carpet bomb a country as was done in Iraq, we should stick to it and see it through as we did in Germany, Japan and S. Korea.

As to why, I see it from the shoes of those oppressed who may want what you and I want, but can't have it because some asshole says so.



I don't expect America to be the most popular, or the most liked, I expect it to step up when the situation calls for it, if we pick up enemies for doing the right thing, so be it.

(again, not saying invading Iraq was doing the right thing, but taking out Saddam sure as hell was). I don't blindly support each and every conflict either, the counter communist actions in S America were uncalled for in the most part.

Sticking to and seeing it through with Iraq would probably take as McCain said "maybe a hundred years."I think more.The middle east Muslims will always be fighting imo,thats why I think its good when there is a regime like Saddams/Iran/ Saudis etc that can keep the peace for long periods of time.


I see it from the shoes of those oppressed who may want what you and I want but with their religion thats not likely to happen imo.Even the people in peaceful prosperous middle east muslim countrys are oppressed.I think we should stay out of middle east affairs and let them fight it out and wait until a side wins who can keep order for decades.

 

[Tony Stark]

(again, not saying invading Iraq was doing the right thing, but taking out Saddam sure as hell was).

So you think Iraq is better now than when Saddam was in power ?

 

[Cuddles]

Sticking to and seeing it through with Iraq would probably take as McCain said "maybe a hundred years."I think more.The middle east Muslims will always be fighting imo,thats why I think its good when there is a regime like Saddams/Iran/ Saudis etc that can keep the peace for long periods of time.


I see it from the shoes of those oppressed who may want what you and I want but with their religion thats not likely to happen imo.Even the people in peaceful prosperous middle east muslim countrys are oppressed.I think we should stay out of middle east affairs and let them fight it out and wait until a side wins who can keep the peace for decades.

I don't buy it. I depart w/my more liberal leaning buddies on the subject. The Japanese thought their emperor a god, sure overall substantially more secular I suppose. I don't side w/the school of thought that Muslims are more peaceful either, but I depart on them not being able to be educated when some brilliant minds in science and math came out and continue to do so out of the region. Not to mention Saddam was pretty much muslim on paper only and kept the power of the church to a minimum in the region.

 

[Cuddles]

So you think Iraq is better now than when Saddam was in power ?

Absolutely not, if you go by the death toll alone, Bush is the bigger monster, even if he ironically had a better heart. Haha, how fucked up is that?

Will it change in the future? Can they hold a democracy in the long term? I wouldn't be in these forums if I knew the answer.

 

[Max E.]

Sticking to and seeing it through with Iraq would probably take as McCain said "maybe a hundred years."I think more.The middle east Muslims will always be fighting imo,thats why I think its good when there is a regime like Saddams/Iran/ Saudis etc that can keep the peace for long periods of time.


I see it from the shoes of those oppressed who may want what you and I want but with their religion thats not likely to happen imo.Even the people in peaceful prosperous middle east muslim countrys are oppressed.I think we should stay out of middle east affairs and let them fight it out and wait until a side wins who can keep order for decades.

Wow actually find some common ground here, The neocons of old who helped install all the dictators in the middle east were clearly much smarter than the neocons, and neoliberals of today, they had a plan in place and knew what the outcome was going to be by helping to prop up the "right dictators."

The neocons and neolibs and war mongerers of today seem to think it is a wise idea to overthrow governments when they dont have any clue whats going to come out on the other side, its pretty hard to argue we werent better off and the people in those countries werent better off with Gadaffi, Assad, Mubarak, and Suddamn Hussein in place, all the meddling in the middle east has just turned it into a wasteland, I can only hope we dont make the same mistake in North Korea, but atleast with North Korea its not going to be a bunch of religious radicals who take over the country.

The bottom line is that the large majority of the people in those middle eastern countries have an archaic set of beliefs that simply doesnt work with modern society, so the only way to keep them in check is to have dictators in place who have enough self interest to want to live and thrive so long as we are calling the shots. Its much cheaper to simply bribe dictators to do our will, and maintain peace in the middle east than it is to go to into futile wars, trying to help them evolve into the twenty first century, and its not going to happen anyways until they want it too, so there is no point.

 

[Tony Stark]

I don't buy it. I depart w/my more liberal leaning buddies on the subject. The Japanese thought their emperor a god, sure overall substantially more secular I suppose. I don't side w/the school of thought that Muslims are more peaceful either, but I depart on them not being able to be educated when some brilliant minds in science and math came out and continue to do so out of the region. Not to mention Saddam was pretty much muslim on paper only and kept the power of the church to a minimum in the region.

The Japanese did believe their emperor was a god,but they all agreed.Muslims don't agree.Other than Allah is great many of them don't agree with their own religion.You have the Sunni/Shia having different beliefs,even within the Sunni or Shia they don't agree.Saudi Arabia,Isis and Al Qaeda are all Sunni but don't agree.Thats why they're always fighting and always will be fighting imo.

 

[java]

Trump has no geopolitical strategy when he goes to war. He just wants to kill ISIS because they are bad guys. That's the thing about Trump, you really can't ever disagree with him.

 

[Tony Stark]

Wow actually find some common ground here, The neocons of old who helped install all the dictators in the middle east were clearly much smarter than the neocons, and neoliberals of today, they had a plan in place and knew what the outcome was going to be by helping to prop up the "right dictators."

The neocons and neolibs and war mongerers of today seem to think it is a wise idea to overthrow governments when they dont have any clue whats going to come out on the other side, its pretty hard to argue we werent better off and the people in those countries werent better off with Gadaffi, Assad, Mubarak, and Suddamn Hussein in place, all the meddling in the middle east has just turned it into a wasteland, I can only hope we dont make the same mistake in North Korea, but atleast with North Korea its not going to be a bunch of religious radicals who take over the country.

The bottom line is that the large majority of the people in those middle eastern countries have an archaic set of beliefs that simply doesnt work with modern society, so the only way to keep them in check is to have dictators in place who have enough self interest to want to live and thrive.

Yes Sir we do agree.I agree with you 100 % on this post