US Fed to Print $425B for New Year’s — 3 Times Bitcoin’s Market Cap

[Sig]

You just make things up. Current technological progress is completely independent of monetary policy and would likely happen no matter what monetary system would be in place

there is just no evidence for that claim

Well, globalization brought some cheap technology into our houses but globalization is also part of progress and would likely happen irrespective of monetary policy regime

We probably need to determine if you are advocating against the fractional reserve system we have now? If so, since you didn't indicate an alternative it would have to be going back to a system where you couldn't lend anything more than you had in gold (or some other mineral) to back it up, given that's the only other monetary system that's really been tried absent some Yap island style giant rocks. So in your universe we have 190,000 metric tons of gold, all that's ever been mined, and we keep the original $20.67 per ounce rate. So that's a total of $138T in money in the entire world! That's just shy of the world's annual PPP GDP of the world. So you'd be advocating for allowing no more money to exist than what is currently annual GDP, which if you understand the concept of money and GDP you instantly know is absurd.

Do you think any capital intensive industry would be where it is today with that kind of constraint? You think we would have built out millions of miles of fiber, cell towers, backhauls, last mile cable and fiber, hell even phone and electric lines, if we limited lending in that way? Hopefully you see that would have been a moronic restraint to operate under. Perhaps why you don't have any successful modern day gold standard economies to point to as an example we should follow?

Now I apologize if you're not advocating for an end to a fractional reserve system. Well I won't really apologize, because if you're claiming that current technology and the built environment would happen absent a fractional reserve system you've got to tell us what that other system that was there in it's place would have looked like...if it wasn't a gold or other mineral standard. As I've been able to trivially demonstrate above, you don't get modern day with a gold or other mineral standard (and that was my original assertion in this thread). As I've said at least 3 times just in this conversation, I see a lot of bashing of fractional reserve but everyone's too afraid to suggest an alternative, probably because that would require one to actually have a viable alternative.

So, I'll try to pin you down here. If you believe that technological progress would have progressed the same as if we had another monetary system besides fractional reserve, what system exactly would that be?

 

[bone]

Dr. Lauren Graham, MIT, says you’re completely wrong. He’s made a career explaining that Russia has some of the most brilliant and innovative scientists and engineers in the world - and yet Russia has never been able to become world technology leaders exactly because of their societal structure and monetary system.

Current technological progress is completely independent of monetary policy and would likely happen no matter what monetary system would be in place

there is just no evidence for that claim

Well, globalization brought some cheap technology into our houses but globalization is also part of progress and would likely happen irrespective of monetary policy regime

 

[ET180]

I don't really disagree with any of that except the idea that China and Russia are considering returning to a gold standard, if that's what you're actually even saying there. My point is really along the lines of the Churchill quote, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried." Same with our current Fed based economic system, it's got problems but no-one has proposed a better system and a gold standard (although it sounds like you're not really advocating that) isn't it.

I'm not a proponents of MMT either, by the way!

I honestly don't know what China and Russia are planning other than they have both been very vocal in their desire to move the world away from a dollar-based reserve currency. I brought up the point to show that when it comes to trust and soundness, few assets have stood the test of time like gold. Although I own some gold and still look for opportunities to acquire more, I'd rather own something that is more productive. I view gold as an insurance against debt and the best way to bet on a continued increase in debt. Consider all the effort, energy, pollution, and perhaps human rights violations in some cases that is consumed digging up gold out of the ground. I'd rather see all that effort put into more productive uses. So I was being sincere and somewhat devil's advocate when I asked why don't central banks hold solid reputable, dividend-producing stocks like JNJ, BRK-B, MSFT, KO, etc instead of gold? Although those assets may fluctuate, so has gold. Gold went from 1900 to around 1000 in just a matter of years. That pattern can be found in the past as well.

I came across this article tonight, published today. The first half echos what I stated above. Interesting read.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4312658-how-to-win-currency-war

 

[kashirin]

Dr. Lauren Graham, MIT, says you’re completely wrong. He’s made a career explaining that Russia has some of the most brilliant and innovative scientists and engineers in the world - and yet Russia has never been able to become world technology leaders exactly because of their societal structure and monetary system.

Current Russia monetary system or basically any other country in the world is a carbon copy of the western monetary system. I don't know what to discuss here

But what I meant some of the most important innovations in the history of mankind were made before the Fed existed - planes, rails, electricity, physics etc.
So it would be stupid to argue if such innovations were possible before the Fed was "invented" then current inventions like Internet wouldn't happen if we were still on gold standard and all that possible is just because of the Fed money printing

 

[bone]

You don’t seem to have a grasp on the role of venture capital and private equity as it relates to bringing technological innovation to market. That is MUCH more important than the Fed or printing money.

Current Russia monetary system or basically any other country in the world is a carbon copy of the western monetary system. I don't know what to discuss here

But what I meant some of the most important innovations in the history of mankind were made before the Fed existed - planes, rails, electricity, physics etc.
So it would be stupid to argue if such innovations were possible before the Fed was "invented" then current inventions like Internet wouldn't happen if we were still on gold standard and all that possible is just because of the Fed money printing

 

[nooby_mcnoob]

Here: Durden blogged this some time back https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/here-megabank-behind-septembers-repo-shock

The recent press conference all but confirmed exactly this. So this is drama between Fed and JPM, nothing else.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/repo-crisis-fades-away-first-time-turn-repo-not-oversubscribed

Told y'all. My analysis is super, bitches.

 

[bone]

I find it hilarious that the OP somehow equated the Repo Market and the Fed's market actions to Bitcoin.

 

[Rickshaw Man]

If and when the US Dollar loses it's reserve currency status. Be prepared with hard assets....Guns,bullets,gold etc. Paper currency will be used to light fires.

 

[Sig]

If and when the US Dollar loses it's reserve currency status. Be prepared with hard assets....Guns,bullets,gold etc. Paper currency will be used to light fires.

I know you preppers have wet dreams about the destruction of civilization but the rest of us live in a reality where we don't just wake up one day to surprisingly find the world's largest economy by GDP and source of much of the worlds innovation suddenly lost its reserve currency status overnight and we're all running around throwing gold bars at one another. Not to mention the utter worthlessness of gold in a complete meltdown of civilization scenario. It's funny how strong the correlation is between the losers of the world and the preppers are.

 

[bone]

Yep, when it comes to the destruction of civilization you can't eat gold. You can't swap 100 rounds of 7.62 for a pound of gold when there's no State monetary system - but you can swap 100 rounds of 7.62 for a goat.

I know you preppers have wet dreams about the destruction of civilization but the rest of us live in a reality where we don't just wake up one day to surprisingly find the world's largest economy by GDP and source of much of the worlds innovation suddenly lost its reserve currency status overnight and we're all running around throwing gold bars at one another. Not to mention the utter worthlessness of gold in a complete meltdown of civilization scenario. It's funny how strong the correlation is between the losers of the world and the preppers are.