Unsuccessful trading with full-time job

Quote from Laissez Faire:

Basically, you don't know what you're doing.

I day traded full-time the U.S. markets while working 100% and more as a carpenter.

I'd say the only way this would work is if you have your method down 100% and it's simply a matter of executing it during a reduced period of the trading day. It seems like you're still in the learning phase (which I also was) and in that case, you simply don't have enough time to do everything you need to do.

If I were to do it again, I would for example limit myself to the last 3 hours of the trading session and forget the open completely, even though the open is usually the best time period. If I don't really have the time to rest and prepare before the open (I used to come straight from work), I can't trade it regardless of that.

I was sleep deprived and spent my whole weekends studying and preparing. It does not work in the long run, especially if you're not getting paid for it.

The best and easiest money I ever made was by swing trading along with a full time job. I really raked in money there. Relatively speaking of course. All orders placed at EOD. Zero stress. If you feel like you don't have enough money to do so, then reduce your size. There's always something you can trade that can accomodate your account.

My advice:

1) Stop what you're doing and spend your time thinking about what you should do instead. If you want to continue day trading, make a plan and do all the research stuff you feel like doing before you resume day trading.

2) Have a long term perspective. Think at least 5 years. Wanting to make a KILLING with low capital on your first year is a not going to happen. It can happen. It happened with me. But it's rare. Simply being profitable is a great goal right now.

3) Choose an approach you can live with. Being sleep deprived is OKAY in the short term, but long term, it will kill you. It nearly killed me and I'm still suffering from the consequences.

4) Have something else in your life.

Good luck!
More...

What were you trading at that time?Options/futures/stocks? What were you strategies?

How much, in terms of percent, do you think is a realistic profit goal with small capital?

Since you were successful swing trading, do you still do it? What would you recommend I learn to swing trade?

I like the "Have something else in your life.", however, considering the circumstances I just don't have the time. I either stay at a average/complacent life with my full time job, or I master trading to have a better/fuller life. I chose the latter. And until I succeed at trading, I don't see myself having something else in my life, no matter how badly I want it. Until I give up on trading, I am willing to and have sacrificed my relationships, money, relaxation, etc. in order to master this.
 
Quote from nursebee:

What specifically do you want? What is your goal or end point?

How can you best get there?

Are your current methods working? What makes you think they can work?
More...

Specifically, to start with, I want to make about $3000 per month. About $750 per week. If I can consistently do this, I can quit my job, to do this full-time and make even more through out the day.

I want to do that trading options, if possible, but I am open for suggestions on how best to achieve this. Also, I want to be to doing this outside 10am-7pm hours, if possible.

Current methods are to trade options in the first hour. I explained of bit of this in an earlier post, but basically I watch for high beta stocks to show some kind of pop and then I jump in to make a $1/$2. However, many times the trend/pop reversed before I sell it. I suppose, I don't know how to identify, if it's a trend that will stay or reverse. Any suggestions on that?
 
Quote from th3moneytrain:

Specifically, to start with, I want to make about $3000 per month. About $750 per week. If I can consistently do this, I can quit my job, to do this full-time and make even more through out the day.

I want to do that trading options, if possible, but I am open for suggestions on how best to achieve this. Also, I want to be to doing this outside 10am-7pm hours, if possible.

Current methods are to trade options in the first hour. I explained of bit of this in an earlier post, but basically I watch for high beta stocks to show some kind of pop and then I jump in to make a $1/$2. However, many times the trend/pop reversed before I sell it. I suppose, I don't know how to identify, if it's a trend that will stay or reverse. Any suggestions on that?
More...

Try intra day trading u just need the capital and leverage and you can make more than $750 a week. Especially if you trade Prop firms.
 
Quote from th3moneytrain:

I don't want to discredit your "its not for everyone" response,

but I'd like to know why to think that?

What flaws/mistakes make it not suitable for some people vs. others?

Granted, I'm no genius, but I'm not an idiot either.

I know that I have been unsuccessful, but that's why I am here,

I want to know why?

Is trading only for geniuses?


Are you a part time trader as well? What works for you?
More...


“I don’t want to discredit …..”

The hell you say… yet you said it

Be passive... or be aggressive – never co-mingle the two...

And for Christ sakes never fake humility

Mkt will tear ya a new ass on both accounts


Above is by no means an attack or accusation... rather an observation

===============

First one must understand it not so much about the flaws / insecurities / inadequacies one has – we all have them

Rather…, it’s about being able to accept same – then operate in spite of same

===============

As to a few other aspects separating the few from the many

In no certain order mind you....

Trader’s mindset; I use this term…, immediately a few know exactly what I’m referencing – whereas the majority…, think it vaporware / being obtuse / mysticism / guru-ism / zen

Plan / methodology/ approach; few are tedious/ diligent / tenacious / motivated enough to develop a plan / methodology / approach that works – yet fewer can follow same unwaveringly day in and day out till retirement

Humble / adaptable / unbiased / open / focused; few are – fewer are able to remain so (especially once they begin making money)

Detail orientated/ intuitive; few look at a chart and pick up on the nuances – or pick up on participant’s intent / emotion

Uncertainty; few thoroughly understand / accept it – yet fewer are totally comfortable operating in it

No one knows – few completely believe this – see directly above

Losing; few are comfortable losing easily…, or as required

Able to analyze multiple views…, distill to an actionable thesis…, easily abandon this thesis and move on to the next

Thinking one’s opinion matters

Getting past thinking being wrong is somehow bad / demeaning

Objective and dispassionate

Knowing the difference between luck & skill

Success thrives within simplicity..., repetition..., sizing up

Getting past all the bullshit this business espouses

Obsessive adherence to simple honesty

Understanding trading entails managing self – first…, foremost…, till retirement

Respect; for colleagues - for money

======================

Above…, but the very tip of the proverbial iceberg which separates

RN
 
Quote from jb3398:

I trade full time with a job. I work in IT and conduct trades from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2 PHONE !!!

Most of my trades are executed in the first hour, by 10:30 am I'm out. Unless my trail stop continues it momentum, at which point my trades will end once my trail has been executed.

Studying charts is hog wash, it helps about 25% of the time. If you aren't trading the same stock over an over don't swing trade! I have successfully swing traded stocks I watch consistently like FNMA (3.09). When all you have is $10K cash and 20K in buying power you have to trade lite. FNMA is a penny stock so you can only use cash if your trading retail. With a Prop firm (Series 56 license) it is more advantageous, you can trade margin. I grab 8000 shares of FNMA and let it move 2 cents and I trail it buy a penny. So I can average $160 a day x3 days which is $480 a week. Minus commission I earn about $400 weekly, with that one symbol from a phone. I trade other stocks as well, but for quick cash I use FNMA. You cant short penny stocks with retail accounts, so this is where prop trading pays off.

A full time job is the best thing to have. If you are trading retail your goal should be, deposit 10K in a retail account like Etrade, have 20K in buying power. Trade stocks between $10-20 dollars acquiring 1000 shares or better per trade, so when that stock moves .10cents you've earned $100 - commission $80. with 2000 shares you will take home $160. I am in a position now where I can save my salary and live off Etrade. My paychecks go untouched. Set a goal, mine is $500 a week, which I hit consistently. If I go over fine, however if I fall short by a few dollars so be it. A win is always better than a loss.

I don't trade everyday. At 9:30 I pull my screeners, look for Top Gainers, Top Loosers and Most Active! I pick one and run with it. If it is a looser I SELL, aka Short Sell. If it is a GAINER I Buy. I am now in the process of depositing all my paychecks into Etrade. So within 6 months I can have $25K in cash and bypass the PDT rule. I will continue the direct deposit indefinitely. As I need money for my personal account a simple wire transfer is all it would take.

I'm trying to figure out a way of trading with a prop firm using a mobile app. I prefer trading with a prop firm using 50-100:1 leverage, $300K or better. That way you can trade with one symbol like Amazon or Apple and get out a .50 cents. Which will earn you $300 or more a day. Once you have the capital at least $50K in cash increase your risk, for quick cash trade FOSL which can earn you $2K in 20 minutes very Volatile. However with FOSL you must set you stop to $1500. (doesn't mean it will execute at $1500 it could be more) Or you can trail by .30 cents after your in the black with $500 or better.

I know I covered a lot, however you don't need to study charts and markets before and after. That is for IRA accounts and long term investments like dividends. For swing traders all you need is quarterly hi & low's, to predict entrance and exit strategies. If it too high prepare to short, too low prepare to buy. I made a lot of my money on stocks that tanked 2 days in a row. I purchased that stock on the second day at 3:45 prior to Market closing, set a stop loss and usually cashed out pre-market or at opening with nice (huge) gains. I would still check my screeners at opening if I still had a few day trades left. Traded light for a quick $100 or better in the first hour and enjoyed the rest of my day.

I stay away from swing trades and day trade for small gains. However I still swing trade but not as often. If you want to increase you small gains. Increase your leverage (prop trade) because cash (retail) isn't always easy. Don't trade everyday. If I don't trade within the first hour, I don't trade period. I wait to trade another day.
More...

Correct me if I am wrong here, but your strategy consists of heavy capital for lil gains right? And you set up stop losses to to prevent heavy loss of the heavy capital you have invested. How tight are your stops, in terms of acceptable percent loss? You mentioned that you typically make $500 per week, with $10K deposit + $10K margin. So how many positions do you typically have open with how much total capital invested per week? Typically how many entries occur in a week? I assume you don't dabble in options correct?
 
Quote from th3moneytrain:

Specifically, to start with, I want to make about $3000 per month. About $750 per week. If I can consistently do this, I can quit my job, to do this full-time and make even more through out the day.

I want to do that trading options, if possible, but I am open for suggestions on how best to achieve this. Also, I want to be to doing this outside 10am-7pm hours, if possible.

Current methods are to trade options in the first hour. I explained of bit of this in an earlier post, but basically I watch for high beta stocks to show some kind of pop and then I jump in to make a $1/$2. However, many times the trend/pop reversed before I sell it. I suppose, I don't know how to identify, if it's a trend that will stay or reverse. Any suggestions on that?
More...
Just a question. How does these kind of profits make you feel?

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=3919277

Those are the kinds of profits my system can churn out except for the one big day which was a fluke. And they all are made trading the first hour too.
 
Quote from th3moneytrain:

Specifically, to start with, I want to make about $3000 per month. About $750 per week. If I can consistently do this, I can quit my job, to do this full-time and make even more through out the day.
More...

Choose a chart bar interval (5-min chart is very reliable for day trading) and study some common price action patterns, such as this favorite of mine:

http://www.dacharts.com/123.htm

In a spreadsheet, log the price excursions that surround every appearance of a given pattern for a single instrument (a single high beta stock or an active ETF or a liquid futures contract).

Eventually you'll find positive expectancy such as price runs N ticks favorably before running N ticks adversely 60% of the time, or price runs 2N ticks favorably before running N ticks unfavorably 50% of the time. You'll start to notice that the successful runs happen more often under certain conditions such as a tilting channel (trend).

Create a set of trading rules based on your observation and apply the rules to 20 days worth of charts. Is the result net positive over time? Apply the rules to 20 days worth of charts of other stocks, ETFs or futures contracts. Net positive over time?

Once you have a set of rules that produces positive results when applied over an acceptable time period, trade your plan in a simulated account that allows you to replay any day's action.

If you're able to do this successfully over a period of 20 or more days, then try real-time simulated trading sessions any time you're able to.

Finally, try your plan in a live account. I'd recommend a small Forex account as a test because you can keep the losses very small in the event your psychology is screwed up.

This method teaches you to develop a plan based on price action, which is an edge that never dissolves as long as there is a liquid market to trade.

This method also allows you to achieve your income goals more consistently without the crazy ups and downs that accompany many trading methods.
 
Quote from Redneck:

Above…, but the very tip of the proverbial iceberg which separates

RN
More...

Not bad, RN. Like talking to a post, but perhaps someone else may benefit from it. You just never know. Look at Hansel and Gretel.
 
Quote from Redneck:


First one must understand...

RN
More...

One of the most profound posts i have seen here. You pretty much sum up all of what this game is made of.

H.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top