Understanding IB

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OnTheEdge: When I came to this country I had one friend here. I had known him since I was a boy, and I trusted him with my life. It turned out he was a liar cheated me out of a few grand. Just like you, I didn't care that much about the money, but the betrayal itself was devastating. I have never recovered from it psychologically. But in the years since, I have found out that it was really nothing more than "the American way of life". While I would prefer to have no contact with liars, it is just not possible. Almost everyone seems to lie. When it comes to money, dishonesty seems to be considered a virtue. It's not "the cheat committed an immoral act", but rather "look at that idiot trusting that anyone might actually tell the truth! it serves him right losing all that money." But it's not only money. I was shocked to find out my wife lies to me just for fun. Not to get money, not to hide an affair, but simply because she thinks telling a lie is always better than the truth.

That all being said, I believe nothing you posted on ET is evidence of IB lying to you. It looks as if you are taking the sentence "We cannot assume" as a lie. At one point you changed your order to 55, didn't you? How are they supposed to "assume" that the nobody would have traded with you at 55 while that order was supposed to be working? Maybe you have proof of that. If you do, have you spelled out that proof to IB? It is certainly not trivial to prove. You would probably have to show that at no point in time your 55 offer would have been on the inside. Otherwise, you cannot know that nobody would have taken it. But even if it was never on the inside, some buyer might have decided to enter a huge order taking out lower offers and yours in one big trade, but that trader decided not to trade, because he didn't see enough liquidity, but he would have seen enough liquidity to trade if your offer had been working at 55.
 
Wow...is all this about $42.00? I think you are "on the ledge" not on the edge. Just close the account and move on....send your paper trail to the NASD and NYSE.....obviously if they get a hundred complaints like this there is a problem. You would go beserk on a trading floor!
 
Quote from i'mlong:

Oldtrader, I'm surprised that Baron doesn't remove your posts opposing IB like he does with most others.
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One of the problems with the younger generation is that many have subpar reading and writing skills. Take your post for instance: it's unclear whether you are saying Baron opposes IB, or I oppose IB. In other words, you don't know how to communicate. But evidently you either don't know how to read (otherwise you wouldn't have concluded that from any post I've made), or you're just plain dumb in general (I doubt Baron opposes IB).

OldTrader
 
Quote from OnTheEdge:

Thanks for proving my honesty. Hoping a trade isn't busted isn't the same as not accepting it when it is busted. I expected it to be busted and I would have lived with that. I was out to get to the truth of how a limit buy order can be filled below limit. And I would have accepted the TRUTH, whether it was in my favor or not.

If a broker will steal ONE DOLLAR from you, they will steal ONE MILLION dollars from you. I cannot risk that, and I will not. When they release my money, I'm out of IB.

And the more they compound this by telling lies about either the situation or me, the more widely I will publicize exactly what happened. Everyone should be free to choose their own broker and also should have access to the facts of what happened to other customers with IB.

You like them, tell everyone how great they've been for you! I had them cheat and lie to me, so I'm telling about that.
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Look son, I've got a rule of thumb in life. Those that are loudest in pointing the finger at others are the ones to worry the most about. In your case, you've gone to EXTREME lengths to accuse IB with lying, being untrustworthy, intimating your fear that they will steal your funds. To me, this means that we should all be worrying about YOU lying.

Either way, I think you are intellectually dishonest. Take for instance the following e-mail that you received:

"On 9/15/03 9:53 AM, "help@interactivebrokers.com" <help@interactivebrokers.com> wrote:


Dear Trader,

Thank you once again for your patience. The programming department has determined that there was a technical issue that affected modifications on GTC orders. The issue has since been addressed and corrected, and we do apologize for the inconvenience.

You are correct in that a limit order should be executed no worse than the limit price; however, in this instance, due to the technical issue, the multiple revisions were never properly received and thus were not processed as transmitted. Unfortunately, with full electronic systems, there are occasionally technical issues which result in improper transmission, which is what occurred in this instance. Again, the situation has been addressed and corrected.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.

Regards,

signature
IB Customer Service"

What they are telling you here is that since your changes were never received at the exchange due to technical glitches. Therefore, your order was filled at the price you received. According to all the paperwork you signed when you opened the account, you bear the consequences of possible technical glitches. Case closed.

Therefore, IB handled the disposition of this order properly. Even YOU were "thrilled" over the fill at the time. And initially when IB looked at the price relative to the fill it sounds like they decided that it would be in your best interest to keep the fill at that time (eventhough they were under no obligation because of the technical glitches). Therefore, any claim that IB "stole" from you are simply slander. Now, I don't know if you made such claims, it's damn hard to plow through all of the distortion, innuendo, and patent bullshit you throw around. But if you didn't outright claim it, then you certainly have created all the innuendo necessary for someone to assume that IB might "steal" your money. That son, is intellectually dishonest at a minimum.

But IB's explanation above wasn't good enough was it? You then seized on a subsequent comment as a "lie". In other words, you picked out something that YOU believe you could hang your hat on, IGNORING everything else that was said relative to this order, so that you could call a guy who was simply trying to help you a "liar". Shame on you son. More intellectual dishonesty.

In fact, it seems that when one bothers to "cross" you, that YOU start flinging the innuendo out there don't you? When I bothered to disagree with your conclusions the other day in another of the neverending threads about this $20 (ROFLMAO), you pondered what my "ties" with IB, you intimated that I'm a "liar", etc etc.

Son, you need help. $20 is a small thing in life....but worse, you were initally THRILLED over it in your own words. Only later did this rightousness enter the picture, when the price came back and you could have sold at the higher price.

If you don't like the way IB handled the technical glitch, eventhough you agreed to them upfront, then simply open another account....and that will bring the number of accounts to what.....a couple of dozen????? LOL.

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with you being upset over the technical glitch. What I have a problem is with you ASSUMING that someone is lying to you, that someone is possibly going to STEAL from you, etc etc. These are invalid assumptions that you make about a firm that has NO history of this at all.

You know, if you had ANY real point here about "lying", someone might agree with you. Why do you suppose you're getting all this resistance? You might want to ponder this when you've become more rational about this matter.

OldTrader
 
Quote from spyderman:

Wow...is all this about $42.00? I think you are "on the ledge" not on the edge. Just close the account and move on....send your paper trail to the NASD and NYSE.....obviously if they get a hundred complaints like this there is a problem. You would go beserk on a trading floor!
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I thought it was over 4 ticks, which I believe would be $20 on a one lot, or $40 on a two lot. Based on the reaction I have to believe this guy is a one lot trader, but I don't know that for a fact. Either way, it's not much money.

OldTrader
 
DEF: I would like to avoid repetition and stick to new and useful dialog.

When you said in your last post to me in this thread that you wouldn’t address this further, you weren’t lying, of course. You meant it then but you changed your mind. Not really a broken word, exactly, most would agree.

But in your email you said: "you sent in 4 price revisions
(9469, 9455, 9467 and 9469) that were not sent to the exchange. We
cannot assume which of those, if any, would have been executed had they
been received by the exchange." I cannot see how that could not be a lie. If you can justify it, factually, I gave you three private opportunities to do that, and now you have a public opportunity to do it. I'd like to hear the justification and I'll give it careful thought.

You say you’re not customer service and that you don’t have authority to fix things yourself, but you do offer to intervene, which implies that you do feel you can straighten out a lot of matters. In three issues I brought to you, none were straightened out. Remember, I brought up a banking rule to you? I told you that Citibank practices on-us with all Citibank checks, so they can be considered as cash next-day. This is something that would have helped a lot of your customers and you promised you’d sent it through for consideration, but nothing ever came of it and you didn't get back to me, three weeks or more later, while it's something that could have been confirmed in a single phone call to Citibank management. Then there was the matter of customer service quality and being able to talk to supervisors or managers. I know that wasn’t fixed because I’ve seen dialog on this board about that. Then the third thing was this problem which ended up in telling me what I think has to be a lie. (If you show me how it isn’t a lie, I’ll give it fair consideration!)

If you don’t have time to deal with these things and you don’t have authority to fix things and you aren’t customer service, maybe you should consider not mixing into all these things. I do understand that you didn’t have time to answer my last three emails, so why not say that in email and not mix in? You could have referred this to a manager who really does have the authority to fix things.

I’ve occasionally had to status a trade at two brokers I still use. Sometimes they decide against my interests, sometimes for my interests. Yesterday I got one taken care of in my interests, and it was fast, and they have staff to do this sort of status research. Maybe IB needs to hire more staff? You have a LOT of customers now, and judging from the posts here, a lot of people use your service and are pleased with it. You should be able to afford to hire enough management to deal with customers and also people to research these fill problems quickly, like my other brokers do. They are discount firms, too, by the way. I don’t use any full service firms, but they do allocate some profits to customer service and improving dealings with customers. I hope IB will rethink its priorities in that regard to treatment of customers as time goes by.

Would I trust a firm with my money if I believe they are cheats and liars? Never. But there is a lot that you could be improving at IB, and I don't think your efforts personally are best spent as you are spending them. If you develop some resources at the firm, it will help everyone.

I've never quarreled with a status report, when it's come back to me, whether for me or against me. This big fuss was only about the lie.

LOBSTER: My own character structure wouldn't allow me to be married to someone who lied to me, and I applaud your flexibility. :) I think!!

Quote from def:

This is a joke. You continue to say I lied and I will not accept that since I didn't lie. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word impossible, maybe I was wrong, maybe I was right, maybe you didn't understand that you were asking us to adjust a trade on a what-if scenario, maybe if we kept a civil tone or gave me a chance to respond to your mails before your accusations we could have reached an understanding - but to say I knowingly lied is insulting and absolutely ridiculous.

You claim we cheated and lied to you. We could have busted the trade which you yourself said were "thrilled to get the fill". Damn, if we wanted to nickle and dime you we'd charge incoming and outgoing wire fees, SEC fees, ECN fees, lower interest etc. I'm quite comfortable knowing that this firm has the highest levels of integrity. Someone went through your case, interpreted the data and made a decision. You think the decision is wrong and shoot back 3 mails - the second and third of which you state you are closing the account. Now you go public stating that we owed you a reply.

If you wrote me ONE mail. Yes the first mail, I probably would have gone through all the data and audit trail myself. Instead, you sent me mails at 11:39 PM, 11:48 PM Sunday and 6:49 AM Monday. I live on the other side of the world, I'm not a machine. the second mail insults the firm and thus me and the third mail went off on us again and stated you wanted your account closed. after reading your 2nd and 3rd mails what was there to respond to? I understand your lack of patience but the timing of your mails and expectation that someone will return a mail to you on their free time when you insult them is well - frankly insulting.
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No, of course it's not about $42. IAnd that's not the figure, though DEF made a point of trying to breach that confidentiality. I had promised to keep his name and exact position confidential and I did that. While my financial info should be confidential, def takes liberties with things like that. There is a lot of money at stake for me at IB and I can't risk keeping it with a firm that I believe isn't honest. The original IB error is not the problem at all -- I wrote it off long ago: it's that they lied to me about it.

Thanks for the suggestions. I've already taken one part of this matter to an overseeing body and I hope it will lead to a positive change for ALL remaining IB customers.

LOL about the trading floor! Thank goodness that's not a job I need to have -- ever, and all you customers should be happy for that, too. ha!

Honestly, I made 400% on stocks since March, and I hoped futures trading would be a nice supplement, especially in bad times for stocks. I can't count on such a good return on stocks forever. Now I just need a futures trading firm I feel I can trust with my money and that supports Macs, and to get my money out of IB's hands. One of the best things about IB was that their software was so good, and works on Macs, too.

Quote from spyderman:

Wow...is all this about $42.00? I think you are "on the ledge" not on the edge. Just close the account and move on....send your paper trail to the NASD and NYSE.....obviously if they get a hundred complaints like this there is a problem. You would go beserk on a trading floor!
More...
 
Quote from OnTheEdge:


LOBSTER: My own character structure wouldn't allow me to be married to someone who lied to me, and I applaud your flexibility. :) I think!!
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Don't applaud it. It's eating me up from the inside. But what is my alternative? Divorce?
 
Quote from spyderman:

You would go beserk on a trading floor!
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LOL. I wonder how I would do...

Lobster, you would last about 5 minutes....ive worked on a few and they are few of those awful Americans you go on and on about! Horrible..........I get the impression you live in the states....where at? How the hell do you put up with us?
 
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