Understanding futures commissions

[JackR]

Quote from comintel:...It is useful no matter what broker you use. ......

The Deep Discount chart is not quite complete. In general you must also add a "platform fee" and/or "feed fee" to the numbers shown.

Some brokers may reduce or eliminate platform and feed fees based on volume/commissions paid.

Jack

 

[Brighton]

Quote from Wallace:

AMP's roundturn on 1 ES trade, lower rates for volume

Exchange: . . $2.28
NFA: . . . . . . $0.08
Clearing: . . . $1.00
CQG TRF: . . $0.20
total: . . . . . $3.52

As an FYI, here are IB's commissions and fees per side for the products I trade (futures and futures options are the same price). ES would be $2.84 RT compared with AMP's $3.52.

These prices assume everything is done electronically. If you choose to route to the pit (where available) the prices are higher.

 

[calhawk01]

Quote from JackR:

The Deep Discount chart is not quite complete. In general you must also add a "platform fee" and/or "feed fee" to the numbers shown.

Some brokers may reduce or eliminate platform and feed fees based on volume/commissions paid.

Jack

Deep discounting is cheap but like you said, feed and platform fees are eleminated with mirus / Optimus. Rithmic Feed can cost a hundred buck and platform ... Same. So I really don't get what mars deep discounting any different

 

[comintel]

Quote from calhawk01:

Deep discounting is cheap but like you said, feed and platform fees are eleminated with mirus / Optimus. Rithmic Feed can cost a hundred buck and platform ... Same. So I really don't get what mars deep discounting any different

I specifically said that I mentioned the DDT page as a useful template that breaks down fees by component, for understanding the various fees charged by any broker. There are a (few) cases where other brokers can be cheaper, but in general the DDT fees are about the best you will be able to negotiate with your own broker for low volume.

The DDT platform fee list is also more detailed than any other broker's:

http://www.deepdiscounttrading.com/TradingPlatforms.html

So you can use those pages to compare your own broker's fees and compare........

I am confident that no broker has free platform fees for the major platforms such as Rithmic, CTS, TT, CQG etc. because these platform vendors will not waive their platform fees for anyone.

Of course they can be included in bundled fees but these are almost always higher in total and give rise to confusion as to what is included and what is not.

 

[tandh]

Quote from Retireby33:

thx, can you answer my question tho?

system i trade makes many trades, and many of them are losers but a few of the winners make me money. but if i gotta pay the brokers gazzilions of dollars in fees for all of my trades. thats rediculas... i dont understand why we have to pay a exchange fee etc for every single trade

i remember when i trade stocks via prop shop, commission was .002 per trade; now in futures... it's 4-5$ per trade........... same technology.... same exchanges... wtf did we just get sent back 100 years where a order has to travel on a donkey??

Your only choice is to buy or lease a seat on the CME, then you can get your commissions lowered by avoiding the fees. No brokerage account will help you escape the fees.

 

[JohnHar]

Quote from Wallace:

AMP's roundturn on 1 ES trade, lower rates for volume

Exchange: . . $2.28
NFA: . . . . . . $0.08
Clearing: . . . $1.00
CQG TRF: . . $0.20
total: . . . . . $3.52

its interesting. how many approximatelly roundturns you have in month for such comission?

 

[JohnHar]

Quote from comintel:

For a good worksheet showing typical breakdown of the components of fees, see

http://www.deepdiscounttrading.com/

.....

yes, but additionally they indicated, so think that actually higher:
"*All Fees Apply To : Electronic Contracts, "Experienced" Traders Only, Brokers, Hedgers, Managed Futures, Automated Systems, Trading Rooms.
*Online Trading Platform Fee Is Additional And Based On Your Choice. Please Click On "Trading Platforms" Above To See All Of Your Choices.
*Options On Futures Are "Not" Charged RoundTurn Upfront. Just Half-In On Entry And Then Half-Out If You Need To Exit Your Positions."

 

[calhawk01]

why is commissions on futures soo high? i mean it's the same machines that are doing all the work. how can prop trading offer commissions as low as .002 per trade

 

[comintel]

Quote from JohnHar:

yes, but additionally they indicated, so think that actually higher:
"*All Fees Apply To : Electronic Contracts, "Experienced" Traders Only, Brokers, Hedgers, Managed Futures, Automated Systems, Trading Rooms.
*Online Trading Platform Fee Is Additional And Based On Your Choice. Please Click On "Trading Platforms" Above To See All Of Your Choices.
*Options On Futures Are "Not" Charged RoundTurn Upfront. Just Half-In On Entry And Then Half-Out If You Need To Exit Your Positions."

They will give the posted fees to anyone. They say "experienced" traders just to indicate they are not a full service broker where you can call up and discuss fundamentals of trades etc.

You can also negotiate similar fees (maybe slightly higher) at other brokers.

The only thing in what you quoted that makes them higher is the platform fees that go to the platform vendor which are on a separate page that I quoted. It is true that they do not have a free platform choice like IB but most people end up on a paid platform anyway. IB may indeed be slightly cheaper at low volumes because they offer a free platform with their 85 cent commissions. You can view this as the same 50 cents commission plus a 35 cents platform fee.

 

[Wallace]

Quote from JohnHar:
its interesting. how many approximatelly roundturns you have in month for such comission?

a single trade

AMP's minimum account is $500 with the free NinjaTrader and CQG feed
there are lower commissions available but phone them direct to find out, think one of
the lower commissions is based on the charting program used
http://www.ampfutures.com/index.php