Under God

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

Freedom of religion is why you are free to practice atheism without persecution.

You are also free not to say the word God without persecution. There is no punishment for a child in school who does not use the word God, nor if the child doesn't even say the pledge.
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There may be no punishment on the books, but there are plenty of ways that believers mete out punishment to athiests. I received a harangue from 3rd grade teacher for not saying the pledge of allegiance. He name was Susan Karp, known in the school as "crazy Sue". PS6 NYC 1970
 
Describe the punishment for me please.

Then let's compare that to the other types of punishment other minority groups have to suffer, by virtue of being a minority of a society.

I see you updated your post.

Okay, sorry for the childhood wound from Susan Karp. There are lots of crazy teachers out there.

Any other persecutions?

Quote from dgabriel:

There may be no punishment on the books, but there are plenty of ways that believers mete out punishment to athiests. I received a harangue from 3rd grade teacher for not saying the pledge of allegiance. He name was Susan Karp, known in the school as "crazy Sue". PS6 NYC 1970
More...
 
Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797). Article 11 states:
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”

From a letter to Charles Cushing (October 19, 1756):
“Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, ‘this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.’”

From a letter to Thomas Jefferson:
“I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved — the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!”

Additional quotes from John Adams:
“Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?”

“The Doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.”

“...Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.”
 
Jefferson’s interpretation of the first amendment in a letter to the Danbury Baptist Association (January 1, 1802):
“Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between church and State.”

From Jefferson’s biography:
“...an amendment was proposed by inserting the words, ‘Jesus Christ...the holy author of our religion,’ which was rejected ‘By a great majority in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammedan, the Hindoo and the Infidel of every denomination.’”

Jefferson’s “The Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom”:
“Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, more than on our opinions in physics and geometry. . . .”

Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia (Query 17, “Religion”):
“The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. . . .”

“Reason and persuasion are the only practicable instruments. To make way for these free inquiry must be indulged; how can we wish others to indulge it while we refuse ourselves? But every state, says an inquisitor, has established some religion. No two, say I, have established the same. Is this a proof of the infallibility of establishments?”

Jefferson’s letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823:
“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”

Additional quotes from Thomas Jefferson:
“It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”

“They [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition of their schemes. And they believe rightly: for I have sworn upon the alter of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.”

“In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to liberty; he is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.”

“Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear....Do not be frightened from this inquiry by any fear of its consequences. If it end in a belief that there is no God, you will find incitements to virtue on the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise and in the love of others which it will procure for you.”

“...that our civil rights have no dependence on religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics and geometry.”
 
Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments:
“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise....During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.”

Additional quote from James Madison:
“Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
 
From The Age of Reason, pp. 8–9:
“I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of....Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and of my own part, I disbelieve them all.”

From The Age of Reason:
“All natural institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.”

From The Age of Reason:
“The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries that have afflicted the human race have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion.”

From The Age of Reason:
“What is it the Bible teaches us? — rapine, cruelty, and murder.”

From The Age of Reason:
“Loving of enemies is another dogma of feigned morality, and has beside no meaning....Those who preach the doctrine of loving their enemies are in general the greatest prosecutors, and they act consistently by so doing; for the doctrine is hypocritical, and it is natural that hypocrisy should act the reverse of what it preaches.”

From The Age of Reason:
“The Bible was established altogether by the sword, and that in the worst use of it — not to terrify but to extirpate.”

Additional quote from Thomas Paine:
“It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible.”
 
<SARCASM ON>Yup....this country was obviously designed to hold atheists
and infidels as second class citizens..... <END SARCASM>

:D

Oh and by the way.... "under god" was added in 1950.

How about getting BACK to our American heritage and
re-instating the ORIGINAL pledge? :D

Nahhhh.... too many BIGOTS around who live by MOB rule :D

peace

axeman
 
So if John Adams was an atheist, that makes his position right and the position of the majority of other presidents and government officials over the course of our history wrong that they may believe in God or support the use of the word God in the pledge, or printed on the money we use?

A minority position itself such as Adams may have held is reason to institute change, where no damage can be found with the existing system?

Besides, it is entirely possible for Adams to have been a believer in God, yet possessed of an issue with organized religion, or specifically the religion of Christianity.

Is there some evidence that the word God, as used in the Declaration of Independence, or the word Creator used in the same document, is the God of a particular religion?



Quote from axeman:

Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797). Article 11 states:
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”

From a letter to Charles Cushing (October 19, 1756):
“Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, ‘this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.’”

From a letter to Thomas Jefferson:
“I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved — the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!”

Additional quotes from John Adams:
“Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?”

“The Doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.”

“...Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.”
More...
 
James Madison explains why 777/ART/ZZzzzzzzzzz is such a fricken MORON, and I quote:

"“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise...."

777's mind is clearly debilitated, thus PROVING James Madisons hypothesis :p


The dumb a-hole is stalking me now as well.
He is sooooooo gay and hot and bothered by me, he cant
seem to stop PM-ing me :p

Down 777! Down boy!!! I know you want my bod... but please...
I have a girlfriend ok? Stop PM-ing me asking for sexual favors already ok?? :p Go find your butt buddy longshot :p


peace

axeman
 
Your IGNORANCE is screaming :p
John Adams an atheist??? BWWAAA HAAA HAAAA...

Go back to school kid :p

God on money was also added in the 50's during the anti-soviet craze.

Dont you know anything??? Our money originally did not
have that GOD crap on it. It was neutral as it should be
in a society that allows freedom of belief/thought/etc,
and considers all men EQUAL.

Adams would EQUALLY protect theist and atheist in this country
even if he didn't think highly of theists. THATS THE POINT.
There should NEVER be anything as a second class citizen, no
matter WHAT the majority believes.


peace

axeman

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

So if John Adams was an atheist, that makes his position right and the position of the majority of other presidents and government officials over the course of our history wrong that they may believe in God or support the use of the word God in the pledge, or printed on the money we use?

A minority position itself such as Adams may have held is reason to institute change, where no damage can be found with the existing system?

Besides, it is entirely possible for Adams to have been a believer in God, yet possessed of an issue with organized religion, or specifically the religion of Christianity.

Is there some evidence that the word God, as used in the Declaration of Independence, or the word Creator used in the same document, is the God of a particular religion?
More...
 
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