Unacceptable Limit Stock Order Handling by IB

[volpunter]

maybe I am overly harsh...Maybe I am an ass hole sometimes but your last post makes it abundantly clear that you should first read up on the mechanics of IB's platform before you accuse the firm of wrongdoing or glitches. I never said things don't go wrong with IB at times but obviously here it is you who is at fault not IB. Several posters used tickers which you refused to supply even upon request and tried what you suggested and their limit orders are placed in the market. I even submitted a screenshot To prove that everything works as intended.

Maybe it's time for you to take a step back and seek the fault on your end...no?

This post of yours makes it perfectly clear that you are obviously too dumb to handle TWS. I never had issues trading out of positions.

And even kids understand if you hold positions in asset A with allocation x1 then you cannot trade out of that position via allocation X2. Every "quirk" you mentioned so far is due to your disability to understand concepts and handle the execution platform in the way it was designed to be.

Lol, and someone is playing "HFT shenanigans internally"? I think the only thing that is happening internally is that they open their pants and piss on your account,) you tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist.

So....as you suggested ....please do move your account somewhere else and spare the world with your bullshit accusations.

 

[Sig]

Lol you gotta calm down first. IB is not breaking the law with this. Depending on your trigger methodology set it is entirely conceivable to not have a stop order trigger even if you set the stop price within the spread. There is nothing illegal about this whatsoever.

Let me provide an example to make this crystal clear. As you can see on the attached this is a 5 point SPX spread with the NBBO of 1.30/2.20. I put in an offer to buy for $1.50, inside the spread, straight up limit order. The NBBO should now be 1.50/2.20 since $1.50 is better than $1.30. In this case IB shows green, if you looked at the log it would show the order as accepted, but clearly it is not being reflected in the NBBO which still shows 1.30/2.20 How is this not illegal again?
I understand this is a slightly different issue than the OP, but reflects the same underlying issue with IB. I don't think they are trying to illicitly make money off of this, I just think their software has bugs. The problem with IB is that their first presumption, much like that of some of the posters on this thread, is that the customer is an idiot and they refuse to even consider that they might have a bug. I don't believe they even have a quality process in place that checks for repeated reports of the same type of problem, nor do I believe the customer service reps have any ability to communicate with the programming team about potential bugs. That's unacceptable for a broker; even a manufacturer of port-a-pots would have this type of quality control system in place.
I run a software company and get customer issues all the time that could be due to customer error or could be a bug. We always assume there's a bug until we can rule that out, which keeps our system relatively bug free. IB works the other way around, they always assume its operator error on the part of the customer and its up to the customer to prove otherwise. Even when the customer does prove that, they don't seem to care and/or be able to do anything about it.

 

[volpunter]

a) Are you working with or for NoVoodooHere? Same low post count, both of you started shooting down IB at about the exact same time. Some disclosure would be helpful.

b) There is no attached image, at least none that correctly shows.

c) When you buy you dont put in an "offer" but you bid.

d) It is probably not reflected because you mostly likely specified "smart routing" (I can only assume because your attached image does not show at all). With smart routing it could be that IB holds it on the server or routes it to even a dark pool. I am not sure where it may potentially route because I do not trade US markets and have not checked on which exchanges SPX trades (are you talking about a futures spread here or CFD spread or other instrument? SPX represents many different assets of different asset classes, so again, without attachment and symbol details its VERY hard to assist or follow what you specifically refer to). Obviously this point is moot if SPX spread refers to the spread between two futures contract or a single exchange traded futures spread.

e) Fucking stop talking about "illegal" all the time. You have not even figured out the root cause so stop jumping to conclusions

f) I am willing to make a bet this has NOTHING to do with a software bug.

g) If you dislike them so much then PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE close your account and move somewhere else. Seriously, your bitching and whining gets on peoples' nerves. And please dont forget, if you hold a 3k or 5k account yes you may get shit service because you bring shit business to the table. I hold several millions with IB and get top service, my issues are investigated right away but when I feel I have been wronged I still at first stay professional and handle it without emotions. So far this approach in the end always turned out to be the best and issues were timely resolved.

h) Given you are in the customer service business you come across as a pretty arrogant type of person, tone down your accusations and I am almost willing to bet IB will jump in no time and assist your issue.

Let me provide an example to make this crystal clear. As you can see on the attached this is a 5 point SPX spread with the NBBO of 1.30/2.20. I put in an offer to buy for $1.50, inside the spread, straight up limit order. The NBBO should now be 1.50/2.20 since $1.50 is better than $1.30. In this case IB shows green, if you looked at the log it would show the order as accepted, but clearly it is not being reflected in the NBBO which still shows 1.30/2.20 How is this not illegal again?
I understand this is a slightly different issue than the OP, but reflects the same underlying issue with IB. I don't think they are trying to illicitly make money off of this, I just think their software has bugs. The problem with IB is that their first presumption, much like that of some of the posters on this thread, is that the customer is an idiot and they refuse to even consider that they might have a bug. I don't believe they even have a quality process in place that checks for repeated reports of the same type of problem, nor do I believe the customer service reps have any ability to communicate with the programming team about potential bugs. That's unacceptable for a broker; even a manufacturer of port-a-pots would have this type of quality control system in place.
I run a software company and get customer issues all the time that could be due to customer error or could be a bug. We always assume there's a bug until we can rule that out, which keeps our system relatively bug free. IB works the other way around, they always assume its operator error on the part of the customer and its up to the customer to prove otherwise. Even when the customer does prove that, they don't seem to care and/or be able to do anything about it.

 

[Sig]

a) Are you working with or for NoVoodooHere? Same low post count, both of you started shooting down IB at about the exact same time. Some disclosure would be helpful.

b) There is no attached image, at least none that correctly shows.

c) When you buy you dont put in an "offer" but you bid.

d) It is probably not reflected because you mostly likely specified "smart routing" (I can only assume because your attached image does not show at all). With smart routing it could be that IB holds it on the server or routes it to even a dark pool. I am not sure where it may potentially route because I do not trade US markets and have not checked on which exchanges SPX trades (are you talking about a futures spread here or CFD spread or other instrument? SPX represents many different assets of different asset classes, so again, without attachment and symbol details its VERY hard to assist or follow what you specifically refer to). Obviously this point is moot if SPX spread refers to the spread between two futures contract or a single exchange traded futures spread.

e) Fucking stop talking about "illegal" all the time. You have not even figured out the root cause so stop jumping to conclusions

f) I am willing to make a bet this has NOTHING to do with a software bug.

g) If you dislike them so much then PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE close your account and move somewhere else. Seriously, your bitching and whining gets on peoples' nerves. And please dont forget, if you hold a 3k or 5k account yes you may get shit service because you bring shit business to the table. I hold several millions with IB and get top service, my issues are investigated right away but when I feel I have been wronged I still at first stay professional and handle it without emotions. So far this approach in the end always turned out to be the best and issues were timely resolved.

h) Given you are in the customer service business you come across as a pretty arrogant type of person, tone down your accusations and I am almost willing to bet IB will jump in no time and assist your issue.

You know I subscribe to the no a-hole rule, so sorry, life's just to short and I'm moving on to happily enjoying my sub-millions and the rest of my life. The readers of these posts can see that some customers have issues with software bugs on IB. We may or may not be part of a grand conspiracy theory of competing brokers out to discredit IB since we didn't provide iron clad proof as demanded. Form your own opinions and take this little data point along with all the other existing data points to form an opinion. Hopefully this helped someone, maybe not, but certainly never a reason degrade to profanity laced responses. My blood pressure is low, happiness high, and I'm off for a run to enjoy the good weather. Good day, Mr. volpunter, may your life be similarly happy.

 

[volpunter]

I think your sub-millions are a hoax, at least your account is most likely funded with less than 50k, else IB would be making hoops to assist you. They have always done, not only for me.

you provided very little information and even messed up your screen shot (or deleted it for whatever reason) so you should not expect a whole lot of support. I am glad you realized its time to move on.

You know I subscribe to the no a-hole rule, so sorry, life's just to short and I'm moving on to happily enjoying my sub-millions and the rest of my life. The readers of these posts can see that some customers have issues with software bugs on IB. We may or may not be part of a grand conspiracy theory of competing brokers out to discredit IB since we didn't provide iron clad proof as demanded. Form your own opinions and take this little data point along with all the other existing data points to form an opinion. Hopefully this helped someone, maybe not, but certainly never a reason degrade to profanity laced responses. My blood pressure is low, happiness high, and I'm off for a run to enjoy the good weather. Good day, Mr. volpunter, may your life be similarly happy.

 

[debitspread]

I stick with them because of what I consider to be a highly favorable commission

This is very helpful, and gets to the heart of the matter. Like many other ET threads on IB, it boils down to, "I want to pay Chevy rates but get Cadillac service."

As another poster mentioned, if you hold a substantial balance at IB, they'll be very responsive. Their rep has visited me, and I've met T.P., although only casually.

 

[NoVoodooHere]

This is very helpful, and gets to the heart of the matter. Like many other ET threads on IB, it boils down to, "I want to pay Chevy rates but get Cadillac service."

Guilty as charged. But in my defense I am trying to make it work (for me), addunno is that really something I can be faulted for(?). Oh well whatever I should just accept that the way my orders (of this particular type) are being handled is not what I intuitively expect as most favorable treatment to me, because in return I get low cost trading... Hum, that's a stretch, I think I'll keep working on a resolution to this problem.

I too don't really have time nor desire for pointless arguments/accusations, will not be wasting more time on this subject on this forum.

 

[volpunter]

Excellent. And thanks for not wasting more of our time , too. (You forgot to mention.)

Guilty as charged. But in my defense I am trying to make it work (for me), addunno is that really something I can be faulted for(?). Oh well whatever I should just accept that the way my orders (of this particular type) are being handled is not what I intuitively expect as most favorable treatment to me, because in return I get low cost trading... Hum, that's a stretch, I think I'll keep working on a resolution to this problem.

I too don't really have time nor desire for pointless arguments/accusations, will not be wasting more time on this subject on this forum.

 

[meaning]

Let me provide an example to make this crystal clear. As you can see on the attached this is a 5 point SPX spread with the NBBO of 1.30/2.20. I put in an offer to buy for $1.50, inside the spread, straight up limit order. The NBBO should now be 1.50/2.20 since $1.50 is better than $1.30. In this case IB shows green, if you looked at the log it would show the order as accepted, but clearly it is not being reflected in the NBBO which still shows 1.30/2.20

If not a bug, then it could be due to this, but it doesn't sound like it:

"C. Routing of Certain Non-Marketable Stock and ETF Orders: When IB receives a non-marketable customer order, IB may route some portion of the order for display on a public market and may retain the remaining portion of the order on IB's ATS, where it may be matched against a conditional order of a liquidity provider that has committed to trade against the remaining portion of the customer order in the event that the portion of the customer order that was routed to a public market is executed. This arrangement provides potential additional liquidity for IB customer orders. In addition, IB will share with the customer a portion of the commission or commission equivalent IB receives from the liquidity provider for these executions, reducing the total cost of execution to the customer."

 

[dst]

...
Here is the issue: (Using TWS latest build) applicable to stock orders only (not happening with stock futures or options orders), when using an OCA group to place a bracket order (this is a very basic tool used by daytraders and is requisite of any serious broker/platform): The limit order on the bracket is not “live” on any exchange; it has status “order is being held and monitored” (blue color). This happens even if placing the limit inside the bid/ask spread INCREDIBLE! In order for the order to fill, the bid (for example on a limit sell order) has to rise to the limit price, & the order is kicked into an exchange and fills (if ther is still a bidder). This is FAR from the way a limit order should be handled, it is a quasi-stop order and is certainly not a live order offered to the marketplace. Obviously this limit order treatment is not acceptable.
...

This behavior is consistent with “Overfill Protection” parameter set on OCA group; did you perhaps set this attribute? This is easy to replicate – in this image OCA Group with key 3.x is has this attribute set, and 1.x does not (see how LMT profit taking order has green status which means it is working on the exchange)?

See more in
* “One Cancels Other” section in Mosaic manual
* in Order Ticket manual

This thread is quite lengthy and I did not study the other examples in details; SPX Bear Put spread that other poster complained about (had to hunt for the image, which is here) is likely not native on the exchange. I would appreciate if other posters could check with our support team if they have any more specific questions.

Thank you for trading with us.