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UN once again proves uselss
- Thread starter sputdr
- Start date
StreamlineTrade
Guest
Quote from Rearden Metal:
Who did this to you?
I mean, your completely distorted view of Israel must have come from <i>somewhere</i>. I'd like to know the source. Were you given these opinions by websites such as whatreallyhappened.com and rense ? Moonbat blogs? Robert Fisk/Guardian/Independent? Al-Jazeera? Or was it darker, more sinister forces such as JewWatch/Stormfront?
Seriously, who did this to you? I'd really like to know.
www.bbc.co.uk/news
www.economist.com
If I am wrong, perhaps you would spare the time to tell me how the kidnappings of 2 soldiers requires the deaths of 1000's of innocent women and children, especially those in Christian areas where Hizbollah had no presence (they are generally a mobile force)?
Need I not mention the deliberate destruction of a red cross convoy, reuters journalists, UN peace keeprs, and of cource Israels lies in admitting it has neuclear arsenals.
In your own time....
StreamlineTrade
Guest
Quote from RedDuke:
Which planet do you live on??? Where did you see 100,000 INNOCENT murdered by Israel.
Did you ever look at the map? You can not even see Israel without mignifying glass. And what about the fact that israel had to fight from the beggining of its existance for not being wiped out by all his neighbors????
redduke
May be because I don't pay attention to American news, but tend to watch unbiased news channels (mostly European), I have a different perspective than others.
Different does not mean wrong.
I think we just have to look at the censorship of the number of American deaths in Iraq during the early years to appreciate this.
They dont show this on ABC or Fox do they.....
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14186.htm
StreamlineTrade,
I never said different is wrong. But where did you see Israel murdering 100,000 innocents???
Trust me I am full aware is US news censorship.
The pictures in the link are nothing new. If you look at any war pictures they are all the same, terrible human suffering.
But it seems that you are biased towards one end. Once again, Israel is a tiny country comparing to its neighbors, who constantly since Israel creation tried to wipe it out from the face of the Earth. What are Israelis suppose to do, put hands down and say kill us???
Israel wants peace more than anybody, but radicals only want its destruction, nothing else will suffice them, thus all these unneeded sufferings.
redduke
I never said different is wrong. But where did you see Israel murdering 100,000 innocents???
Trust me I am full aware is US news censorship.
The pictures in the link are nothing new. If you look at any war pictures they are all the same, terrible human suffering.
But it seems that you are biased towards one end. Once again, Israel is a tiny country comparing to its neighbors, who constantly since Israel creation tried to wipe it out from the face of the Earth. What are Israelis suppose to do, put hands down and say kill us???
Israel wants peace more than anybody, but radicals only want its destruction, nothing else will suffice them, thus all these unneeded sufferings.
redduke
StreamlineTrade
Guest
Quote from RedDuke:
StreamlineTrade,
I never said different is wrong. But where did you see Israel murdering 100,000 innocents???
Trust me I am full aware is US news censorship.
The pictures in the link are nothing new. If you look at any war pictures they are all the same, terrible human suffering.
But it seems that you are biased towards one end. Once again, Israel is a tiny country comparing to its neighbors, who constantly since Israel creation tried to wipe it out from the face of the Earth. What are Israelis suppose to do, put hands down and say kill us???
Israel wants peace more than anybody, but radicals only want its destruction, nothing else will suffice them, thus all these unneeded sufferings.
redduke
So how is it that Israel is doing all the destruction?
...and the murdering?
...and breaking more UN and international laws than ANYONE else in the middle east?
Israel and their sympathy card have cried wolf far too often. Most of the world woke up to this 10-20 years ago. Europe are just starting to become aware, especially after the genocide in Lebanon. How long America takes to wake up is anyones guess, but I'm not holding my breath!
100,000 deaths was a figure quoted on the BBC's Radio 4 program which I listen to over the internet. It is regarded world wide as THE quality news station. The journalists news station if you like.
In comparison, I did once watch an ABC news broadcast. I was shocked at the difference. ABC simply showed things from the Israeli point of view. They only mentioned Isreali deaths, they hardly mentioned Lebanese casualties. The bias is quite sickening.
This is why I can understand there being such a large pro-American/Israeli stance on these boards. Most Americans simply don't get the truth. Mention this to them and they become deeply offended and totally go off 'on one'. They see themselves as the pinnacle of freedom and balance. Nothing could be further from the truth!
They point the finger and accuse you of being anti-American (despite the fact I am standing up for true American principals of truth, justice and freedom), in a similar way that a muslim in Afghanistan would be accused of wrong doing if he were to stand up and speak the truth.
Quote from StreamlineTrade:
So how is it that Israel is doing all the destruction?
...and the murdering?
...and breaking more UN and international laws than ANYONE else in the middle east?
Israel and their sympathy card have cried wolf far too often. Most of the world woke up to this 10-20 years ago. Europe are just starting to become aware, especially after the genocide in Lebanon. How long America takes to wake up is anyones guess, but I'm not holding my breath!
100,000 deaths was a figure quoted on the BBC's Radio 4 program which I listen to over the internet. It is regarded world wide as THE quality news station. The journalists news station if you like.
In comparison, I did once watch an ABC news broadcast. I was shocked at the difference. ABC simply showed things from the Israeli point of view. They only mentioned Isreali deaths, they hardly mentioned Lebanese casualties. The bias is quite sickening.
This is why I can understand there being such a large pro-American/Israeli stance on these boards. Most Americans simply don't get the truth. Mention this to them and they become deeply offended and totally go off 'on one'. They see themselves as the pinnacle of freedom and balance. Nothing could be further from the truth!
They point the finger and accuse you of being anti-American (despite the fact I am standing up for true American principals of truth, justice and freedom), in a similar way that a muslim in Afghanistan would be accused of wrong doing if he were to stand up and speak the truth.
That is a horrible figure of speech to say of 100,000 innocents murdered.
If Arabs would put down the weapons today, there is a good chance of peace. If Israelis put down the weapons today there is a good chance Israel would not exist.
Ask yourself honestly, what would you do if you were an Israeli?
The death of every person in Lebanon war is a tragedy, does not matter which side it happened.
The surprising thing is why Muslim world did not go into uproar about genocide when Bosnians/Serbs were murdering thousands of Muslims in former Yugoslavia? Also, genocide on Rowanda took away a staggering 1 million lives. THAT IS 1 MILLION LIVES!!! And nobody seems to care much.
But whenever Israel clashed with its neighbors, tons of people say that it is the most barbaric regime and so on.
I guarantee that if Arab nations came to Israel and would try to negotiate a true long term peace with notion of allowing Israel existence, peace would thrive. But they do not want peace, what most Islamic nations want is total annihilation of Israel, and thus a never ending war.
redduke
StreamlineTrade
Guest
Quote from RedDuke:
That is a horrible figure of speech to say of 100,000 innocents murdered.
If Arabs would put down the weapons today, there is a good chance of peace. If Israelis put down the weapons today there is a good chance Israel would not exist.
Ask yourself honestly, what would you do if you were an Israeli?
The death of every person in Lebanon war is a tragedy, does not matter which side it happened.
The surprising thing is why Muslim world did not go into uproar about genocide when Bosnians/Serbs were murdering thousands of Muslims in former Yugoslavia? Also, genocide on Rowanda took away a staggering 1 million lives. THAT IS 1 MILLION LIVES!!! And nobody seems to care much.
But whenever Israel clashed with its neighbors, tons of people say that it is the most barbaric regime and so on.
I guarantee that if Arab nations came to Israel and would try to negotiate a true long term peace with notion of allowing Israel existence, peace would thrive. But they do not want peace, what most Islamic nations want is total annihilation of Israel, and thus a never ending war.
redduke
If I was an Israeli (decision maker)?
Honestly?
I would at least try and appreciate WHY the Arabs are so angry.
I would appreciate that a bit of land which is really as far as I can see the route cause, isn't worth all the death.
I would go back to my borders originally agreed with the UN.
I would stop inviting every Jew from every corner of the world in to a tiny country that does not have the necessary land without invading others.
I would accept that my nuclear weapons are encouraging a local arms race (especially with Iran), and I would get rid of them.
I would respect my neighbors, and give them a chance. I would not look down on them, or consider them 'lesser' humans.
In other words, I would treat them with respect, understanding, and good will.
I have found that in life, if we treat our neighbors with respect, we are more likely to get on with them, and it makes it harder for them to come back with anger.
I have noticed that Israeli's have this 'never again' mentality after the holocaust. They are determined that they will be the bully, that they will come down on anyone who threatens them, no matter how small. They have a negative stance that is based upon the past, not a positive outlook based upon the future.
You are right though, any death in any war or genocide is unnecessary. It is such a shame our 'leaders' chose to turn their backs on the plight of others.
BTW - Genocide: The deliberate extermination of a people.
This is how the English Dictionary defines it. The Israelis DELIBERATELY TRIED TO EXTERMINATE 100,000's of Lebanese. To say otherwise is folly.
Hizbollah forces worked in mobile units. They would fire their missiles and disappear. Israeli forces knew this. So why did they insist on bombing CIVILIAN areas when THEY KNEW their targets would have moved on?
Why did Israel bomb VITAL resources and key points like the airport? How will bombing the Lebanese airport affect Hizbollah? All their mislies are transported from the road. All this does is put Lebanon back another 20 years and create more hatred towards the Israelis for another 20 years. How does this help?
The only conclusion is that Israel THRIVES on such violence and regional hatred.
What actions has Israel taken to resolve this matter.
When did 100,000 lives equate to the values of 2 Israeli soldiers?
StreamlineTrade,
We are once again back to 100,000 figure. I thought it was a matter of speech. Even tough every death is a horrible thing, we are talking about 100s not 100,000s. Not that it would matter to those who lost loved ones.
I agree with your point about taken land, but do you remember how it happened. Israel was attacked, and its existence was in question, that is how it got these small pieces of land. These lands are so small that you can not even see them on map by the way.
I do not see anywhere that all Arab nations would say in one voice, give all taken land back and return to 67 borders and in exchange we will guarantee peace and full recognition of the state. Saudis tried to do something like this, but they are only one country.
Now to the most recent history. Israel withdrew from Gaza, and what did it get them, nothing. Hamas' goal is still a full destruction of Israel.
Israel would love to live in peace, but how can it when most of its neighbor's main goal is its annihilation.
I have no clues how this situation can be resolved. I only hope, that when Iran gets nukes (and they will sooner of later, unless they are invaded, but that probably will not happen), they would be smart enough not to use them. Otherwise the whole middle east will cease to exist.
It is ironic how history changes roles. In middle ages when Jews were prosecuted and killed all over Europe, the best refuge was Islamic kingdoms, where they paid a slightly higher taxes and were protected by Muslims.
redduke
We are once again back to 100,000 figure. I thought it was a matter of speech. Even tough every death is a horrible thing, we are talking about 100s not 100,000s. Not that it would matter to those who lost loved ones.
I agree with your point about taken land, but do you remember how it happened. Israel was attacked, and its existence was in question, that is how it got these small pieces of land. These lands are so small that you can not even see them on map by the way.
I do not see anywhere that all Arab nations would say in one voice, give all taken land back and return to 67 borders and in exchange we will guarantee peace and full recognition of the state. Saudis tried to do something like this, but they are only one country.
Now to the most recent history. Israel withdrew from Gaza, and what did it get them, nothing. Hamas' goal is still a full destruction of Israel.
Israel would love to live in peace, but how can it when most of its neighbor's main goal is its annihilation.
I have no clues how this situation can be resolved. I only hope, that when Iran gets nukes (and they will sooner of later, unless they are invaded, but that probably will not happen), they would be smart enough not to use them. Otherwise the whole middle east will cease to exist.
It is ironic how history changes roles. In middle ages when Jews were prosecuted and killed all over Europe, the best refuge was Islamic kingdoms, where they paid a slightly higher taxes and were protected by Muslims.
redduke
StreamlineTrade in the late 1930's:
If I was a non-German European? Honestly?
I would at least try and understand WHY Hitler is so angry.
I would appreciate that his vision of conquest isn't without a cause. Yes, Germany was the aggressor in WWI, but hey, that's life. Don't fault them for a war that killed millions. Everyone makes mistakes after all.
I would give Hitler everything he wants and tell him to please cease with his incendiary speech and gradual erosion of citizens' rights.
He's a rational man, after all.
I have found that in life, if we treat our neighbors with respect, we are more likely to get on with them, and it makes it harder for them to come back with anger. Adolf is surely of this ilk.
Any death in any war or genocide is unnecessary. Mr. Chamberlain met with Hitler and as a result has told us there will be "peace in our time." You see, Hitler is an okay guy. We have nothing to fear.
Our fear of him is just paranoia. Look, IBM trades with Germany and provides lots of nifty record-keeping equipment. So you see, Hitler is our friend.
If I was a non-German European? Honestly?
I would at least try and understand WHY Hitler is so angry.
I would appreciate that his vision of conquest isn't without a cause. Yes, Germany was the aggressor in WWI, but hey, that's life. Don't fault them for a war that killed millions. Everyone makes mistakes after all.
I would give Hitler everything he wants and tell him to please cease with his incendiary speech and gradual erosion of citizens' rights.
He's a rational man, after all.
I have found that in life, if we treat our neighbors with respect, we are more likely to get on with them, and it makes it harder for them to come back with anger. Adolf is surely of this ilk.
Any death in any war or genocide is unnecessary. Mr. Chamberlain met with Hitler and as a result has told us there will be "peace in our time." You see, Hitler is an okay guy. We have nothing to fear.
Our fear of him is just paranoia. Look, IBM trades with Germany and provides lots of nifty record-keeping equipment. So you see, Hitler is our friend.
Quote from StreamlineTrade:
If I was an Israeli (decision maker)?
Honestly?
I would at least try and appreciate WHY the Arabs are so angry.
I would appreciate that a bit of land which is really as far as I can see the route cause, isn't worth all the death.
I would go back to my borders originally agreed with the UN.
I would stop inviting every Jew from every corner of the world in to a tiny country that does not have the necessary land without invading others.
I would accept that my nuclear weapons are encouraging a local arms race (especially with Iran), and I would get rid of them.
I would respect my neighbors, and give them a chance. I would not look down on them, or consider them 'lesser' humans.
In other words, I would treat them with respect, understanding, and good will.
I have found that in life, if we treat our neighbors with respect, we are more likely to get on with them, and it makes it harder for them to come back with anger.
I have noticed that Israeli's have this 'never again' mentality after the holocaust. They are determined that they will be the bully, that they will come down on anyone who threatens them, no matter how small. They have a negative stance that is based upon the past, not a positive outlook based upon the future.
You are right though, any death in any war or genocide is unnecessary. It is such a shame our 'leaders' chose to turn their backs on the plight of others.
BTW - Genocide: The deliberate extermination of a people.
This is how the English Dictionary defines it. The Israelis DELIBERATELY TRIED TO EXTERMINATE 100,000's of Lebanese. To say otherwise is folly.
Hizbollah forces worked in mobile units. They would fire their missiles and disappear. Israeli forces knew this. So why did they insist on bombing CIVILIAN areas when THEY KNEW their targets would have moved on?
Why did Israel bomb VITAL resources and key points like the airport? How will bombing the Lebanese airport affect Hizbollah? All their mislies are transported from the road. All this does is put Lebanon back another 20 years and create more hatred towards the Israelis for another 20 years. How does this help?
The only conclusion is that Israel THRIVES on such violence and regional hatred.
What actions has Israel taken to resolve this matter.
When did 100,000 lives equate to the values of 2 Israeli soldiers?
No shit? The original UN borders worked out great in 1948, did not they? Moreover, going back to the original UN borders with Lebanon in 2000 proved to be a smashing success too... Enough is enough, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, get a cluster bomb.Quote from StreamlineTrade:
I would at least try and appreciate WHY the Arabs are so angry.
I would appreciate that a bit of land which is really as far as I can see the route cause, isn't worth all the death.
I would go back to my borders originally agreed with the UN.