UK trader arrested for May 2010 U.S. Stock market flash crash

[luisHK]

It 's possible he is not in trouble legally for his tax avoidance scheme(That's what I meant... In my country "tax evasion" means tax avoidance not tax fraud ...), but it is not working in his favor...And telling a regulator about having his biggest day while sleeping neither...I am just commenting his behaviour outside trading, he is probably an incredible trader...

Yes in France a set up with offshore entities incorporated in a tax heaven invoicing large administrative fees wouldn't fly with tax authorities. UK tax system seems different.

 

[southall]

He should not fight extradition and return all the money (this will solve most of uk tax problems as well).

Try and get the best deal for minimal jail time.

Returning the money wont effect his or his families standard of living because they never got used to having it.

 

[Ditch]

He should not fight extradition and return all the money (this will solve any tax problems aswell).

Try and get the best deal for minimal jail time.

Returning the money wont effect his or his families standard of living because they never got used to having it.

Governments shouln't extradite their own citizens without a thorough investigation of the evidence supporting the charges in the first place. The way this functions now is a blatant violation of human rights and acts as an invitation for corrupt, political prosecutions.

 

[OddTrader]

Traders who seek to manipulate the U.S. stock market are meant to encounter resistance from the market itself. During the flash crash, Navinder Sarao apparently used Jon Corzine’s now defunct MF Global to place orders and clear trades. Why didn’t MF Global see what he was up to, or at least call him to ask him about it? There’s now a big business on Wall Street of firms renting out their HFT infrastructure to prop shops. Does that business depend on the brokers paying no attention to what their customers are doing? Do the big Wall Street firms that rent out their technology bear any responsibility for what their customers do with the weapons they've been given? For that matter, why don’t U.S. securities exchanges assume any responsibility for what happens on them?

Sarao’s manipulative orders were placed on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. Why didn’t the CME notice what was going on? Or did they notice, and simply not care, as the behavior was standard practice for their high-frequency trading clients?

Then there is the biggest question of all: How can a guy working from his parents’ house in suburban England whose only actionable orders were to BUY stock market futures cause such a sensational collapse in U.S. stocks? On the day of the flash crash, Sarao never actually sold stocks. He was trying to trick the market into falling so that he could buy in more cheaply. But whom did he fool with his trick? Whose algorithms were so easily gamed that they responded to phony sell orders by creating a crash? Stupidity isn’t a crime. Still, it would be interesting to know who, at this particular poker table, on this particular day, was the fool.

It would also be interesting to know how it occurred to Sarao that his trick might work. There’s a fabulous yet-to-be-told story here, about a smart kid in the U.K. who somehow figures out that the machines that execute the stock market trades of others might be gamed -- and so he games them. One day while he is busy trying to trick the U.S. stock market into falling, the market collapses, more sensationally than it has ever collapsed. And instead of digging some hole in Hounslow in which he might hide for a decade or so, or fleeing to Anguilla, where he has squirreled away his profits, he stays in his parents’ home and keeps right on spoofing the U.S. stock market -- and then is shocked when people turn up to accuse him of wrongdoing. He’s not some kind of exception to the standard operating procedure in finance. He’s a parody of it.

All are very Good questions indeed!

 

[i am nobody]

Governments shouln't extradite their own citizens without a thorough investigation of the evidence supporting the charges in the first place. The way this functions now is a blatant violation of human rights.

I wonder what would happen if a foreign country would do this with an American citizen?
Sometimes the US government thinks that the whole world should obey them in fulfilling all their wishes. No matter how much or little proof they have for the case.
Guantanamo, the non existing chemical weapons from Saddam Hoessein.....

 

[Ditch]

I wonder what would happen if a foreign country would do this with an American citizen?
Sometimes the US government thinks that the whole world should obey them in fulfilling all their wishes. No matter how much or little proof they have for the case.
Guantanamo, the non existing chemical weapons from Saddam Hoessein.....

The USA is one of the major abusers of extradition arrangements. And they don't return the favor to boot, it's totally unimagible that the USA would extradite a Wall Street-trader to Germany for spoofing the DAX on XETRA. Imagine Lloyd Blankfein, the biggest scumbag of them all, in a German prison working at the production line of cabletrees for Porsche. Priceless!

 

[i am nobody]

The USA is one of the major abusers of extradition arrangements. And they don't return the favor to boot, it's totally unimagible that the USA would extradite a Wall Street-trader to Germany for spoofing the DAX on XETRA. Imagine Lloyd Blankfein, the biggest scumbag of them all, in a German prison working at the production line of cabletrees for Porsche. Priceless!

What is the problem? The huge drop in the S&P.

How to find out what caused it:

• • Make a complete list of all participants that day and list all the manipulations (place, cancel or change orders) they did.
• • Analyze all these manipulations on a timeline that start at the opening of the markets and closes at or before the close of the markets.
• • Watch which participants start or have open positions or positions that change around the time of the drop.
• • Analyze carefully who bought in and immediately after this drop.
• • As they can make a complete list for each participant with all the handling they did, it is possible to calculate the P/L for each participant that day. That will show us who to blame probably.

In this way you will see that only big orders can cause this move.
In this way you will see that Navinder Sarao was much too small to cause this.
In this way it will become clear that some very big participants caused it (and were maybe mislead by Navinder Sarao). So they want him out of the game. They don't want to share profits and keep everything for themselves. That explains also why so many (ordinary) people lose money.

When I use the word ALL I mean ALL, so also the big US participants, and the big players who abuse the system without being prosecuted.

 

[southall]

Governments shouln't extradite their own citizens without a thorough investigation of the evidence supporting the charges in the first place. The way this functions now is a blatant violation of human rights and acts as an invitation for corrupt, political prosecutions.

In general that should be true.

But Saroa is or was a paid up member of the CME.
So he definitely has legal obligations to the US.

Hiss ass (which he once told the CME to kiss) belongs to Uncle Sam now.

 

[i am nobody]

The "democratic way of thinking" from the American Government:
On Friday President George Bush signed into law the American Servicemembers Protection Act of 2002.

The new law authorizes the use of military force to liberate any American or citizen of a U.S.-allied country being held by the court. This provision, dubbed the "Hague invasion clause," has caused a strong reaction from U.S. allies around the world, particularly in the Netherlands.

The law also provides for the withdrawal of U.S. military assistance from countries ratifying the ICC treaty, and restricts U.S. participation in United Nations peacekeeping unless the United States obtains immunity from prosecution. At the same time, these provisions can be waived by the president on "national interest" grounds.

In short: everybody should extradite citizens on the simple demand of the US. But The US will do whatever they want and are never held by any treatment. They do as they wish and don't have to respect any law. Law concerns only all the others, never the US.

Sarao can be prosecuted, like any human being, but there are rules that should be applied. And these rules should be the same for all human beings, even for American human beings. No exceptions.

 

[Ditch]

The "democratic way of thinking" from the American Government:
On Friday President George Bush signed into law the American Servicemembers Protection Act of 2002.

The new law authorizes the use of military force to liberate any American or citizen of a U.S.-allied country being held by the court. This provision, dubbed the "Hague invasion clause," has caused a strong reaction from U.S. allies around the world, particularly in the Netherlands.

The law also provides for the withdrawal of U.S. military assistance from countries ratifying the ICC treaty, and restricts U.S. participation in United Nations peacekeeping unless the United States obtains immunity from prosecution. At the same time, these provisions can be waived by the president on "national interest" grounds.

In short: everybody should extradite citizens on the simple demand of the US. But The US will do whatever they want and are never held by any treatment. They do as they wish and don't have to respect any law. Law concerns only all the others, never the US.

Sarao can be prosecuted, like any human being, but there are rules that should be applied. And these rules should be the same for all human beings, even for American human beings. No exceptions.

Power corrupts, total power corrupts totally.