UK arms control and the fake USA crisis

[Lucrum]

Quote from BSAM:

Well, we've flooded the nation with guns: That ain't workin'.
I agree that taking all the guns away won't work.

Sounds like the amount of guns isn't the cause of the violence to begin with.

So, do any of you believe that we can do something in moderation to help with the solution to all the gun violence?

In the way you mean, NO.

 

[BSAM]

Quote from Lucrum:

Sounds like the amount of guns isn't the cause of the violence to begin with.
In the way you mean, NO.

So, by your reckoning, we have a problem for which there is no solution?

 

[PHOENIX TRADING]

Quote from Lucrum:

You may already have this but if not it might be of use.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/alabama.pdf

Thanks since I cross the florida line frequently (6 miles or so) I need to be legal in both states.

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from BSAM:

So, by your reckoning, we have a problem for which there is no solution?

I did not say there is no solution. Violence can be reduced, it will never be eliminated. You yourself said neither extreme (though I don't agree) doesn't make any difference. An arbitrary number of guns in the compromise/middle ground range isn't going to work either. The people misusing the guns is the problem. Execute the violent offenders the first time, right after their conviction and do it publicly.

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from PHOENIX TRADING:

Thanks since I cross the florida line frequently (6 miles or so) I need to be legal in both states.

With an AL permit you would be.

 

[PHOENIX TRADING]

Quote from Lucrum:

With an AL permit you would be.

thanks

 

[Mav88]

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Quote from Mav88:

what the hell you talking about, I called it a gun control experiment, now because you don't like the results you claim it is idealogy and some sort of statisical aberration. The fact is liberal idealogy says less guns equals less guns crime, period, with no claims whatsoever as to the absolute starting levels.
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Its not in any shape or form an experiment and there are no results other than your own fallacious conjecture.

yes it is. an action is taken- handgun banning and confiscation, and we watch the reaction. The results are the crime stats, there isn't any other way to measure such things.

When liberals made the law in the first place, were they not referring to the crime statisics in making their argument. After it fails you think that renders the raw data invalid and not the policy. Liberal religious fantasy at its finest.

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The facts remain as they are, you don't like them so you obfuscate and make up unsubstantiated hypothesis. I repeat another inconvenient fact for you about UK gun control

http://www.saf.org/journal/16/guncontrolinengland.pdf
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Joyce Malcom is a history professor yet she is completely unaware that a state called England has not existed since 1707 and what she has roped together is a cut and paste conjecture which is not in the least bit scholarly.

Wow, I'm simply quoting the gun data so you attack the professor ad hominem. If you were intellectually honest you would stop, but alas....

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I'm sure you will wave your hand, come up with some half baked hypothesis and satisfy yourself.
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Nope I will let you come up with something. Now entertain me.

I've made a conclusion based on data, that's all, it's the same conclusion as most experts. What's entertaining is your continued evasion and weak attempt at some sort of rigorous defense. So far you have said the data was wrong, the professor is dumb, etc. in other words you naysay without the slightest bit of evidence or logic in your direction.

How about this author in the article below? is he just stupid and you, the stuffy know it all liberal, know better? btw he also called it an experiment

http://www.gunsandcrime.org/faildxprmt.pdf

The Failed Experiment
Gun Control and Public Safety in Canada,
Australia, England and Wales
Gary A. Mauser

About the author
Gary A. Mauser is a Full Professor in the Institute for Urban Canadian Research Studies and the Faculty of Business Administration at Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada. He earned his Ph.D. in Social Psychology from the University of California at Irvine. He has published numerous scholarly articles on survey research analysis, guns and violence, and evaluating firearm legislation. His recent papers are Misfire: Firearm Registration in Canada (Fraser Institute Public Policy Source 48); Canadian Attitudes toward Gun Control: The Real Story, with H. Taylor Buckner, published by the Mackenzie Institute; “An Evaluation of the 1977 Canadian Firearm Legislation: Robbery Involving a Firearm,” with Dennis Maki, published in Applied Economics, and “Armed Self Defense: the Canadian Case,” published in the Journal of Criminal Justice. He has served as an expert witness for the Supreme Court of Canada, the Alberta Court of Appeal, and has testified before Canadian parliamentary committees on proposed firearm legislation. For more information, see his web page, www.sfu.ca/~mauser.

 

[Mercor]

Quote from Lucrum:

With an AL permit you would be.

Looks very similar to the current electoral estimate map

 

[Mav88]

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Quote from Mav88:

Look, if you refuse to read then I'm gonna call you what you are- willfully retarded. I said HANDGUN CRIME ONLY when referring to handguns.

Secondly, it does not matter if there was a crime spike, IN FACT it supports my assertion that crime is independent of guns, if you wanna argue that way about gun control. Did you catch yourself? You just made an excuse for the lack of effectiveness of gun control. Liberal idealology says that no matter what, less guns equals less gun crime, crime spikes are irrelevant to that claim. You just made an exception, ooops, so how many more are there?
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You first post was smorgasbord of conflicting opinions and pasted links and you even conferred your own opinion that both the US and UK have separate cultural identities.

I made it quite clear and directly to you, I was talking about the handgun ban in the UK in our side discussion. Now you make some irrelvenat reference to the OP? give it up, you lost.

My opinion isn't conflicted at all, handgun control failed because culture is a stronger determinant than handgun availability.

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Quote from Mav88:

The UK has a low gun crime rate because of culture, something very obvious to thinking people but out of reach to the fragile brainwashed liberal mind....
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You may not have picked up on this as yet but I do not have an argument on gun control just a dislike of wild assumptions. Maybe pro 2nd folks should internalize their argument rather than pursue the distractions of whats happening on distant shores.

Data is not an assumption. Data says handgun ban failed. Data says culture is stronger than gun laws. You have not come anywhere near refuting my conclusions, you think labels are refutations.

 

[Mav88]

Quote from BSAM:

So, by your reckoning, we have a problem for which there is no solution?

Do you know how many times this movie has played?

For example:

On Wednesday morning, taxi driver Derrick Bird went on a shooting spree in the rural region of Cumbria in northwest England, killing 12 people and injuring 11 others. The massacre began near the village of Lamplugh at 10 a.m., when Bird, 52, shot and killed his twin brother David. Over the next three hours, he drove from village to village in the beautiful Lake District region with his shotgun and .22-cal. rifle, cutting down people at random. Then he drove to his favorite beauty spot and killed himself. As the community tries to comprehend why Bird, who was well known and liked, would commit such an atrocity, his actions have forced Britain to revisit old questions about gun control.

This kind of thing is not supposed to happen in Britain, which prides itself on its strict gun laws, pointing to the relatively low rate of gun-related deaths — 39 in 2008-09 — as proof of their effectiveness. There is no constitutional right to bear arms, and there is a blanket ban on the ownership of handguns. Anyone who wishes to own a firearm or shotgun — and Bird used both — has to be thoroughly vetted by the police and granted a renewable license. The latest figures for England and Wales show that, in a population of more than 60 million, there are 138,728 people with certificates to hold firearms, owning 435,383 weapons among them, and 574,946 shotgun certificates covering 1.4 million shotguns. The countries do not have an armed police force, although the increased threat of terrorism in the U.K. means more police are carrying arms in specific areas such as airports and some public buildings.



Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1993727,00.html#ixzz22j5bHf3H

and yet we get headlines that we are at a 40 year crime low at the same time.

It is some sort of delusional mental disorder that people believe we can change human nature and create a 0 violence utopia. The only question is how much government waste will there be in the attempt.