U.S. tech leaders sound alarm over Trump immigration ban

[Sig]

You are saying there is no western exec qualified so they hire from 3rd world, with min IT infrastructure. They only use foreign exec for better offshore pricing. Walk into any IT center in the west and you would think you're in india, with a few token westerners thrown in. I remember 25 years ago IT leaders were given stock from foriegn companies to promote offshore.

Wow, is their no limit to your ignorance? They made Sundar Pichai CEO of Google to get better offshore pricing? Couldn't have been because he led the development of Chrome and Google Drive? Or successfully led the Gmail and Google Maps divisions. Couldn't have been because he accomplishes more in a day than you've accomplished your entire life? No, it was all to get better offshore pricing, that's it.

I've got news for you buddy, you are a sad excuse and will remain one until you take a little responsibility for yourself and stop with the endless victimhood bullshit. If incompetent Indians with fake degrees came and took your job, why in the world didn't you grab all the other aryan help desk operators like you who were laid off and build a company to compete with your old company? That's what a leader would do, it's practically free money since your competition, according to you, is completely incompetent. Instead you sit in a corner and feel sorry for yourself while blaming everyone except the real source of your sad life, you. That's pathetic.

 

[viruscore1]

Wow, is their no limit to your ignorance? They made Sundar Pichai CEO of Google to get better offshore pricing? Couldn't have been because he led the development of Chrome and Google Drive? Or successfully led the Gmail and Google Maps divisions. Couldn't have been because he accomplishes more in a day than you've accomplished your entire life? No, it was all to get better offshore pricing, that's it.

I've got news for you buddy, you are a sad excuse and will remain one until you take a little responsibility for yourself and stop with the endless victimhood bullshit. If incompetent Indians with fake degrees came and took your job, why in the world didn't you grab all the other aryan help desk operators like you who were laid off and build a company to compete with your old company? That's what a leader would do, it's practically free money since your competition, according to you, is completely incompetent. Instead you sit in a corner and feel sorry for yourself while blaming everyone except the real source of your sad life, you. That's pathetic.

If you like foreign workers so much you should move there! Are you ranting, did you even read my post?
If these individuals were such great leaders and innovators why didn't they do the same for one of there great companies but no, they did it for a USA company. They were there for cheap labor displacing local workers, to avoid backlash. Did you know Sundar Pichai is American?
You don't know me but you attack me personally. You're just a sad pee-on pretending you're someone your not. Get grip, you'll live like upper class back in india.
In india, it should be india first. When In Europe, it's Europe first. When in America, it's America first! Don't like it, tough get use to it!

 

[toc]

You are saying there is no western exec qualified so they hire from 3rd world, with min IT infrastructure. They only use foreign exec for better offshore pricing. Walk into any IT center in the west and you would think you're in india, with a few token westerners thrown in. I remember 25 years ago IT leaders were given stock from foreign companies to promote offshore.
The lack of qualified western engineers, programmers and scientist is a myth. After 25 years the cycle has finally come around, now the promoters are retired or dead. The cheap labor has risen to near western levels. Now it's time for them to train our graduates, like we did for them.

On average, a local American IT worker is 10-20% better but they also come at prices 30-50% more expensive.

Because of H1-B visa status, the Indian or immigrant workers usually work 50% more hard and thus give a much higher bang for the buck.

Immigrant programmers come with much higher math and science skills which helps in coding by a lot. American programmers are much more creative and innovative and are able to sync IT with more new industries and products.

Recently like in last 10 years, there is also lots of fraud going on where low quality workers are given the visa. This has to be fine tuned to prevent the abuse of the visa system.

 

[viruscore1]

On average, a local American IT worker is 10-20% better but they also come at prices 30-50% more expensive.
Because of H1-B visa status, the Indian or immigrant workers usually work 50% more hard and thus give a much higher bang for the buck.
Immigrant programmers come with much higher math and science skills which helps in coding by a lot. American programmers are much more creative and innovative and are able to sync IT with more new industries and products.
Recently like in last 10 years, there is also lots of fraud going on where low quality workers are given the visa. This has to be fine tuned to prevent the abuse of the visa system.

Foreign rates have increased to local rate levels. There have always been h1b abuse. I was there 20 years ago when offshore started, foreign workers learnt their skills on the job. They certainly didn't learn it working for indian companies. We trained our replacements 5 at a time, now it's their turn to train our graduates. If they're so great, they can take their skills and come up with their own products.

 

[toc]

Foreign rates have increased to local rate levels. There have always been h1b abuse. I was there 20 years ago when offshore started, foreign workers learnt their skills on the job. They certainly didn't learn it working for indian companies. We trained our replacements 5 at a time, now it's their turn to train our graduates. If they're so great, they can take their skills and come up with their own products.

That's not right, there is still a vast difference in foreign vrs local rates. Also with today's technologies in communications, I would not go through the H1 process to bring a coder in the US. I would keep them in India/Asia and pay them $25K overseas vrs $50K here or $80K to a local plus benefits ofcourse.

If the business is like Google or Microsoft, then your basket is very high quality of candidates both foreign and local and going cheap on salary is not a choice.

Learning skills on job argument goes only as far as learning an enterprise specific platform not the basic programming or IT skills.

 

[viruscore1]

That's not right, there is still a vast difference in foreign vrs local rates. Also with today's technologies in communications, I would not go through the H1 process to bring a coder in the US. I would keep them in India/Asia and pay them $25K overseas vrs $50K here or $80K to a local plus benefits ofcourse.
If the business is like Google or Microsoft, then your basket is very high quality of candidates both foreign and local and going cheap on salary is not a choice.
Learning skills on job argument goes only as far as learning an enterprise specific platform not the basic programming or IT skills.

Agree, It's beyond programming, and platform, that's chump change. It is the amount of analysis, design, QA, time, and communication required for offshore vs local development. Offshore is not as cheap as it appears, lining many pockets. That's why it's hushed up...

 

[achilles28]

I hope they make the h1b workers train their American replacements. This is what we had to do when h1b's were hired to displace Americans.
The h1b's and none naturally born westerners must be removed from all interview panels, this is how this mess proliferated.

Of course. Immigrants promote their own. At the expense of natives. Happens everywhere. In every culture.

Up here in Canada, immigrant doctors help out their foreign brothers and get them on permanent disability. Fuck Canada.

Why not. If Trump doesn't stop this, it ends in a shooting war.

The right won't tolerate this bullshit.

 

[achilles28]

"Naturally born Westerners" are naturally superior are they? This is why they pull a racist card achilles28, to answer your question.

I don't think so. Immigrants hire, look out for, and bend the rules to help their own kind. Some cultures more then others. But they do it, and I know they do. Everyone does. It's human nature. Come to a new country, find your country men, they tell you the scams, the handouts, the things to look out for etc.

Why do you think you're so smart? and nobody else can figure that out? It's just a question of how much do you want to bend over and take it? I don't. Apparently, you do.

 

[viruscore1]

That's not right, there is still a vast difference in foreign vrs local rates. Also with today's technologies in communications, I would not go through the H1 process to bring a coder in the US. I would keep them in India/Asia and pay them $25K overseas vrs $50K here or $80K to a local plus benefits ofcourse.
If the business is like Google or Microsoft, then your basket is very high quality of candidates both foreign and local and going cheap on salary is not a choice.
Learning skills on job argument goes only as far as learning an enterprise specific platform not the basic programming or IT skills.

You are quoting offshore salary, i'm referring to rates paid by American corp to offshore companies. FYI Local rates have dropped and offshore rates have increased narrowing the gap. Offshore/h1b doesn't make sense when all variables are included.
Before offshore, local developers work efficiently with 70% of the specifications, the remaining 30% is uncovered along the way. Offshore/h1b programmers need 100% of the specifications, Much more is spent on analysis, QA and communication, I'm not even including the time zone difference, cultural and language barrier.
Way back when, I developed the offshore/h1b model for multi-nationals. I had my concerns but due to corp greed, that was the paradigm. Eventually this will be exposed, we're only scratching the surface. It's time our graduates are given a chance rather than selling off American jobs to the lowest bidder.

 

[Sig]

I don't think so. Immigrants hire, look out for, and bend the rules to help their own kind. Some cultures more then others. But they do it, and I know they do. Everyone does. It's human nature. Come to a new country, find your country men, they tell you the scams, the handouts, the things to look out for etc.

Why do you think you're so smart? and nobody else can figure that out? It's just a question of how much do you want to bend over and take it? I don't. Apparently, you do.

You answer your own question with yourself as the racist example!

And in a delicious bit of irony you inadvertently point out something very important. If what you say is true, imagine what it's like to be a minority in this country? You've got 2/3 of the population white and you're in the 13% that's black. According to you, that means that 2/3 of the population is looking out for "their own kind", which isn't you, and you have to "bend over and take it" from them. Must really suck, perhaps now you understand why they "pull the racist card" from time to time when having to live with people like you?

You should try putting yourself in others shoes for a minute every now and then, that whole empathy thing will make you a better person and much less of a heel.