U.S. Declares War on Libya! Good Idea?

[Hello]

One positive thing im seeing out of all of this is that Americans are finally waking up and losing their appetite for war. I even saw a poll the other day on Fox news which said that 65% of Americans dont want to do anything in the middle east, and thats on a right wing network. And in your poll 0 people so far think its a good idea to do anything over there.

Thats a HUGE change compared to what it would have been 5-10 years ago. Its nice to see the right wing wake up and figure out that we are going broke trying to police the world, and we always end up looking like assholes anyways. This is one of the things i have never agreed with the right over.

Quote from Rearden Metal:

I didn't catch any articles in the media about the U.S. Congress convening and voting in favor of an official declaration of war against Libya as stipulated by the U.S. Constitution, but I'm sure this must have happened and I just missed it.

 

[Ricter]

On a related note it's important to remember how we must evaluate Obama in all this.

If Obama had decided to attack in the beginning, he would have been a thug, ramming US policy "down the throats" of the Libyans, getting the US into yet another war we can't afford, because he's a big spending democrat.

If Obama had taken some time, letting a coalition form, then he would have been indecisive, a poor leader, and the world would have to look elsewhere for help because they can't count on the US.

If Obama had refused to intervene, he would have been uncaring, a coward, a failure for US interests and prestige.

 

[Gabfly1]

What a bunch of hedged bet wonders. Either the president is dithering in the wake of human massacre and not acting soon enough or he shouldn't be acting at all. Some pundits on TV have voiced shame that other nations are playing a more active role in the the matter, therby usurping the US's dominant global role, while others are appalled that the US is involved at all. The only commonality between these two groups is their disdain for Obama irrespective of what he says or does.

Yes, I know. You're all just a bunch of high-integrity guys enjoying this damned-if-he-does, damned-if-he-doesn't moment.

 

[Ricter]

Quote from Gabfly1:

What a bunch of hedged bet wonders. Either the president is dithering in the wake of human massacre and not acting soon enough or he shouldn't be acting at all. Some pundits on TV have voiced shame that other nations are playing a more active role in the the matter, therby usurping the US's dominant global role, while others are appalled that the US is involved at all. The only commonality between these two groups is their disdain for Obama irrespective of what he says or does.

Yes, I know. You're all just a bunch of high-integrity guys enjoying this damned-if-he-does, damned-if-he-doesn't moment.

Obama is either a coward, or acting in contradiction of his Nobel Peace Prize winner status. If all else fails, we'll hear ; ) about Obama's ears again. (Thanks for the material, lucrum.)

 

[pspr]

Quote from Ricter:

Obama is either a coward, or acting in contradiction of his Nobel Peace Prize winner status. If all else fails, we'll hear ; ) about Obama's ears again. (Thanks for the material, lucrum.)

<img src=http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PQxtQaf07Oo/S4FnlfFbJLI/AAAAAAAAA9w/43IbqDRK5i4/s400/OBAMA+EARS.jpg>

 

[Hello]

I would have been in support of him coming out from day 1 and flat out saying, "We are not getting involved, as we are already involved in 2 wars and we can not afford it." end of story. The muslims already view us as terrorists in Iraqw and afghanistan, what the hell makes anyone think this time would be any different?

I would love for the politicians in U.S. to finally wake the fuck up, and realise that invading/attacking other countries almost never works, and the citizenry of the countries we try to liberate never end up viewing us as saviours anyways so what the hell is the point in trying to help anyone, especially when we are going bankrupt trying to do it.

For Obama to do/say nothing for a month and then send in troops without any approval from congress is unacceptable in my opinion.

Quote from Ricter:

On a related note it's important to remember how we must evaluate Obama in all this.

If Obama had decided to attack in the beginning, he would have been a thug, ramming US policy "down the throats" of the Libyans, getting the US into yet another war we can't afford, because he's a big spending democrat.

If Obama had taken some time, letting a coalition form, then he would have been indecisive, a poor leader, and the world would have to look elsewhere for help because they can't count on the US.

If Obama had refused to intervene, he would have been uncaring, a coward, a failure for US interests and prestige.

 

[AAAintheBeltway]

Let's at least be honest about what's going on here. The French and Brits see a golden opportunity to grab Libya's oil. Of course, they don't really have the military assets to do it or the will, so they coopt us into doing the dirty work.

Obama sees a golden opportunity to look tough, with no real fear of a defeat or many casualties. In short, an opportunity to be a bully. He sees it as insulation against republican attacks that he is weak or not a credible leader on defense issues. Just as Bill Clinton exploited the Bosnian situation.

Obama also has to deal with the annoying problem of Hillary Clinton, who has made this her signature issue and who has her lackeys out busily backstabbing her president for dithering on an issue that could get her the long-coveted Nobel Prize.

In short, this has nothing to do with the stated justifications and everything to do with politics.

A republican party with real leaders would be on top of this, demanding that the president justify ignoring the Constitution and preparing Articles of Impeachment. Instead, we have the spectacle of John McCain going on TV and lamenting that Obama didn't get us into this mess sooner.

 

[Ricter]

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

Let's at least be honest about what's going on here. The French and Brits see a golden opportunity to grab Libya's oil. Of course, they don't really have the military assets to do it or the will, so they coopt us into doing the dirty work.

Obama sees a golden opportunity to look tough, with no real fear of a defeat or many casualties. In short, an opportunity to be a bully. He sees it as insulation against republican attacks that he is weak or not a credible leader on defense issues. Just as Bill Clinton exploited the Bosnian situation.

Obama also has to deal with the annoying problem of Hillary Clinton, who has made this her signature issue and who has her lackeys out busily backstabbing her president for dithering on an issue that could get her the long-coveted Nobel Prize.

In short, this has nothing to do with the stated justifications and everything to do with politics.

A republican party with real leaders would be on top of this, demanding that the president justify ignoring the Constitution and preparing Articles of Impeachment. Instead, we have the spectacle of John McCain going on TV and lamenting that Obama didn't get us into this mess sooner.

Well, this is a bit more complicated than the ways I gave, but yes, you have identified a fourth way we can criticize Obama. I thought I had it "bracketed". Well done.

 

[Hello]

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:


A republican party with real leaders would be on top of this, demanding that the president justify ignoring the Constitution and preparing Articles of Impeachment. Instead, we have the spectacle of John McCain going on TV and lamenting that Obama didn't get us into this mess sooner.

John McCain is a living(for now anyways), breathing, trainwreck, with an insatiable lust for war. He has already proven that he really has absolutely no values whatsoever, he is willing to do or say whatever he think he has to politically to get elected, the only unbending desire he has is the desire to go to war, im confident that if he was in charge we would probably be in three more wars in the middle east right now. I dont think McCain has ever seen a conflict in any part of the world that he doesnt think the U.S. should be involved in.

 

[Gabfly1]

Quote from Hello:

...I would love for the politicians in U.S. to finally wake the fuck up, and realise that invading/attacking other countries almost never works, and the citizenry of the countries we try to liberate never end up viewing us as saviours anyways so what the hell is the point...

Which is why he both did the right thing in stepping in to stop the massacre, and not lead the initiative by waiting for a general consensus among other nations, including the Arab League. In this way, the US has an important but not primary role in being a responsible global citizen in a general region where it also has important allies and interests. In retrospect, I think Obama walked the fine line capably and played it as well as he could have against any number of competing viewpoints.