Tudor suspends withdrawal

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

I'm going watch Surf's back on this one.

Certainly CW would agree with you. No I wouldn't pay a guy 50% to take shots. Let alone to imitate Surf's buddy Vic. :)

However what if a firm with excellent customer flow-for instance an options market maker-came to you and said we have an edge and we'll split 50/50 with your capital. Naturally you'd do it. The same way a producer pays Sandler 20mil instead of Steve Guttenberg 1mil, knowing one actor will produce a release and the other guy can't open.

Look at stocks. You pay 20x earnings, management gets paid millions, the stock pays no dividend and you have absolute price risk. Crap deal. Big pic a quality manager charging 25% is a steal. That being said the time to give Cohen money was 1997 not 2007....
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Ouch....taking a pot shot at VN through a post to Surf.


What kind of person does that?
 
Quote from Angrycat:

SAC also charges a 4% management fee and most hedge funds charge a 2% management fee in addition to a share of the profits.

almost none of the trading companies I've ever run across charge a management fee. It's all a percentage of profits. You might be thinking of that model.
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rare is the hedge fund that doesn't charge a mgt fee.

however, pressure is on to reduce the mgt fee to 0, in many funds. this may be the new standard one day.....


surf
 
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

I'm going watch Surf's back on this one.

Certainly CW would agree with you. No I wouldn't pay a guy 50% to take shots. Let alone to imitate Surf's buddy Vic. :)

However what if a firm with excellent customer flow-for instance an options market maker-came to you and said we have an edge and we'll split 50/50 with your capital. Naturally you'd do it. The same way a producer pays Sandler 20mil instead of Steve Guttenberg 1mil, knowing one actor will produce a release and the other guy can't open.

Look at stocks. You pay 20x earnings, management gets paid millions, the stock pays no dividend and you have absolute price risk. Crap deal. Big pic a quality manager charging 25% is a steal. That being said the time to give Cohen money was 1997 not 2007....
More...


exactly.

50% performance fee on a fund with a PROVEN EDGE, is a great deal--investors will stand in line just to be given a chance to invest.

the operative words are "proven edge".

surf
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

rare is the hedge fund that doesn't charge a mgt fee.

however, pressure is on to reduce the mgt fee to 0, in many funds. this may be the new standard one day.....


surf
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The 0% fee funds are out there. They obviously are the ones who have confidence in their strategy. I do know of one who hasnt charged a fee since inception and has made their investors a ton of money over the years.

Too many funds seem content to raise as much money as possible and just collect the 2%.
 
Quote from EPrado:

The 0% fee funds are out there. They obviously are the ones who have confidence in their strategy. I do know of one who hasnt charged a fee since inception and has made their investors a ton of money over the years.

Too many funds seem content to raise as much money as possible and just collect the 2%.
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very true.

asset gatherers is the term for those kind of funds--they are on the way out, in my opinion.
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

exactly.

50% performance fee on a fund with a PROVEN EDGE, is a great deal--investors will stand in line just to be given a chance to invest.

the operative words are "proven edge".

surf
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how would you know one has a 'proven edge'?track record is not sufficient. I thought Ospraie LLC was a great fund to invest. the guy was seeded by tudor jones and mentored by Julian R. had a good record of 8 years or so including a recession, yet he fell in love with his research and his plan in the case of a global recession was to go under. If the guy has a HUGE track record then chances are you need huge amounts to get in

Picking hedge funds is like picking stocks in a market with huge commission costs, if you are good at that chances are you can do all the trading YOURSELF
All that performance of hedge fund indexes are gone now that global assets are going down, why on earth would one pay 2/20 to be long of assets taking the risk of blowups?Cutten had a thread about a simple assets ETF type of portfolio, I bet something like that outperforms most hedge funds
 
Quote from JamesVU2000:

the only proven edge most of these funds had was leverage in a rising market.
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It wasn't until I read Fooled By Randomness that it hit me bro. An overwhelming majority of consistently successful hedge funds were merely de facto short option premium.

A carry trade-whether it's capturing currency yield differentials or borrowing at 2% and lending at 6%- is an identical risk profile to a short put on the spread. The "premium" collected is the yield diff. Leveraged of course. I used to look at returns and think, "how can these guys be so friggin' good". Now we all know it was Russian Roulette......
 
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

It wasn't until I read Fooled By Randomness that it hit me bro. An overwhelming majority of consistently successful hedge funds were merely de facto short option premium.

A carry trade-whether it's capturing currency yield differentials or borrowing at 2% and lending at 6%- is an identical risk profile to a short put on the spread. The "premium" collected is the yield diff. Leveraged of course. I used to look at returns and think, "how can these guys be so friggin' good". Now we all know it was Russian Roulette......
More...

Similar thoughts crossed my mind when I read this book as well.
 
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