$TSLA

Specterx said:
IMO if they do a capital raise
More...

The ongoing theory is that they can't. The current SEC problems and such prevents them to beg for more money. I am not sure they could issue more stock, but someone could obtain a 5% ownership for a few billions, specially if the price goes lower.

What I can see Larry Ellison loaning them 2-3 billions thus the facade can go a year longer.

Another theory:

"The twitter-verse believes that Tesla can borrow on an ABL line against battery packs. As such, Tesla is producing more battery packs than cars, stacking the battery packs up in the Giga-factory, and using the ABL to pay off Panasonic for batteries they are obligated to buy. I imagine that Tesla might be in a situation where more battery packs would be better than fewer, so they might really want more cells to produce the battery packs for the ABL lenders to unwittingly buy."
 
Pekelo said:
The ongoing theory is that they can't. The current SEC problems and such prevents them to beg for more money. I am not sure they could issue more stock
More...

It's exactly that... I documented it March 20th in this thread. I quote :

We believe the ongoing Department of Justice investigator into potential securities and wire fraud related to Model 3 production statements prior to the company’s 2017 high yield offering as well as the SEC’s ongoing litigation with CEO Elon Musk over the “Funding Secured” debacle have likely blocked the company’s ability to do a registered equity offering. The MXWL merger proxy is taking a surprisingly long time to be declared effective. It’s almost as if the SEC is refusing to approve any registration statements for the company so long as Musk remains CEO. The poor performance of Tesla’s high yield bonds has likely limited the company’s potential access to that market. In theory, Tesla could do some sort of private placement in its equity, but we believe Musk has been unwilling to pursue this path since the likely pricing of such an offering would trigger his margin call and wipe him out personally.
 
From Wikipedia...About the gigafactory. Tesla owns the land and building, and leases part of the building to Panasonic, which owns some of the cell production equipment.[

Production[edit]
The factory is intended to gradually[105][106] provide cradle-to-cradle handling of batteries, from raw material over components to finished products, and recycling old batteries into new.[23] Cells constitute most of the value creation, whereas packing and electronics are minor parts.[107] Tesla views production as more important than products, and assigns more engineers to developing production equipment than to developing products.

Notice "Cells constitute most of the value creation, whereas packing and electronics are minor parts." That is my thinking on the value.

If (or when), Tesla fails, would anyone want to buy that site? What company would have the most interest in owning or leasing that site? Maybe I'm wrong, but this is where I see the value with Panasonic...

Was thinking of Warren Buffett buying a railroad. People scratched their heads on that one. Then they realized the unlocked value there...

Also today on Panasonic From Yahoo! Finance. I like the PE and dividend...

Panasonic Corporation (PCRFY)
Other OTC - Other OTC Delayed Price. Currency in USD
In watchlist
9.12+0.40 (+4.59%)

Full screen
Previous Close 8.72
Open 9.15
Bid 0.00 x 0
Ask 0.00 x 0
Day's Range 9.07 - 9.15
52 Week Range 8.34 - 15.05
Volume 107,195
Avg. Volume 170,679
Market Cap 21.474B
Beta (3Y Monthly) 0.86
PE Ratio (TTM) 10.16
EPS (TTM) 0.90
Earnings Date N/A
Forward Dividend & Yield 0.26 (2.97%)
Ex-Dividend Date 2018-09-26
1y Target Est 14.70
Trade prices are not sourced from all markets
 
Last edited:
Cabin111 said:
Yeah, Tesla does not pay any highway taxes. But there is never any wear and tear on the highways with their cars?? This looks costly to me and my pocket...
More...

If you don't keep your hands on the wheel, these things tend to happen.

As Vanz mentioned, I wonder how far they will push this into a comparison with the Boeing 737 Max software bugaloo.

But one thing I know about cars, is that every car since the 19xxs WILL stop if you hold pressure on the brakes and keep yer hands on the wheel. The brakes will overpower the throttle.

Did nobody catch the fact that this guy worked for Apple, probably had an iPhone, and was probably doing the distracted-driving thing?
 
They are paying 700 MM a year just to finance their debt. So let's say their average profit margin is 5K/car, they have to sell 140K cars, what is 45% of their current production just to stay bankable.
 
Off topic, but funny:

"SpaceX successfully landed the center core of its Falcon Heavy rocket on a drone ship last week, but the vehicle accidentally fell into the ocean while in transit to the Florida coast."

Obviously rocket scientist don't bother with choppy seas...
 
Like someone else wrote in different thread, they are gonna study Tesla and Musk in Business class across the world for a long time... New form of fraud using multiple networks to spread lies, he's taking shilling to a level never seen, he has a few sites and a army of trolls pumping Tesla non stop... Teslarati, Electrek, FastCompany and Cleantechnica, 4 sites pumping daily articles just dick riding non stop and peddling new " hype ", I do not think I have ever seen a fraud so active with online in your face presence, from twitter to articles every few hours, non stop shilling

https://electrek.co/2019/04/16/tesla-battery-recycling-system/

Tesla confirmed this week that it is developing a “unique battery recycling system,” which the company believes will result in “significant savings” over the long-term.

As we reported yesterday, Tesla released a fascinating new ‘impact report’ to look into how its products and operations are impacting the environment.

Later in article...

Tesla says that it doesn’t have a significant number of battery packs currently coming back due to their end-of-life, but it has a few packs coming back from “R&D, manufacturing, quality control and service operations” and the automaker is recycling those batteries.

Tesla wrote in the impact report:

“At Gigafactory 1, Tesla is developing a unique battery recycling system that will process both battery manufacturing scrap and end-of-life batteries. Through this system, the recovery of critical minerals such as lithium and cobalt will be maximized along with the recovery of all metals used in the battery cell, such as copper, aluminum and steel. All of these materials will be recovered in forms optimized for new battery material production.”

Several companies are currently working on ways to be able to recover critical minerals from battery cells in the recycling process.

American Manganese recently achieved high extraction from lithium-ion battery cathode material at their pilot recycling plant.

Site comes off portraying Tesla has come out with some magic new Patent with title of the article, only to say Tesla is trying to figure out how to recycle Lithium, and that other companies already mastered it... You couldn't even make this stuff up if you tried
 
Electric cars only illuminate the German climate balance on paper. In reality, they cause higher CO2 emissions than diesel cars. This is according to a study by Christoph Buchal, physics professor in Cologne.

When CO2 emissions are taken into account in the production of the batteries and the German electricity mix, an electric car stresses the climate 11 to 28 percent more than a diesel car, according to the study. It was published today.

Batteries and electricity consumption
A lot of energy is needed for the extraction and processing of lithium, cobalt and manganese for the batteries. A battery for a Tesla Model 3 loads the climate with 11 to 15 tons of CO2. With a battery life of ten years and an average distance of 15,000 kilometers per year, that means 73 to 98 grams of CO2 per kilometer.

Then there is the CO2 emission for electricity consumption. In reality, the Tesla then emits between 156 and 181 grams of CO2 per kilometer. That is clearly more than a comparable diesel car from, for example, the German brand Mercedes.

Unrealistic limit value:
That European politics regards electric cars as zero-emission vehicles is therefore criticized by the researchers. The CO2 limit value of 59 grams per kilometer prescribed from 2030 would correspond to a consumption of 2.2 liters of diesel or 2.6 liters of gasoline per 100 kilometers and is, according to scientists, "unrealistic".

These new limit values mean that car builders now have to sell a large proportion of their electric-powered cars. “For the climate, however, it would be better to use combustion engines powered by methane (natural gas). Its CO2 emissions are one third lower than those of a diesel engine, "the scientists said.
 
https://www.bloomberg.com/asia

Hedge fund wunderkind David Einhorn and futurist Elon Musk are locked in a zero-sum contest. Einhorn is betting big, in reputational capital if not actual dollars, that Musk’s Tesla Inc. is doomed to fail.



“We believe that right here, right now, the company appears to again be on the brink,” Einhorn declared on Friday in a letter to investors in his fund, Greenlight Capital, citing lack of demand, price cuts, layoffs, service center closings and cuts to capital expenditures as signs that Tesla is in trouble. This isn’t the first time, Einhorn added, contending that “Musk never admits the crisis in real time.”



If Einhorn is right, it won’t just be Musk who gets hurt, of course. Roughly 40,000 employees and more than 300,000 car owners are counting on Musk. And don’t forget the investors who paid a fortune for the company’s stock, hoping it will become a titan of the car industry. Tesla’s price-to-book ratio is 9.5, and its enterprise value-to-earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization is 37.4. That compares with 3.4 and 13.4, respectively, for the S&P 500 Index, which is no bargain to begin with.



Premium Price
Investors are paying up to own Tesla shares

Source: Bloomberg



If Einhorn is wrong, however, it could be devastating for him and have broader reverberations. Greenlight has been betting against — or shorting in trader speak — Tesla’s stock for at least three years. While the size of the wager isn’t clear, Einhorn has spent considerable energy promoting his bet against Tesla, and most of his recent letter is devoted to the subject. If it fails, it could deliver another significant blow to long-short investing, for which Einhorn has long been a proponent.



He is no stranger to high-profile wagers, of course. He shorted the stock of Lehman Brothers in July 2007, telling the Value Investing Congress in November 2007 he thought that Lehman had a huge exposure to illiquid real estate investments and that it was improperly accounting for them. Lehman collapsed less than a year later, sparking the global financial crisis in September 2008.



The stakes are higher this time. When Einhorn wagered against Lehman in 2007, his reputation as a stock-picking prodigy was unquestioned. Greenlight returned an astonishing 26 percent a year from its founding in 1996 to 2006 — a period that began when Einhorn was in his late 20s — outpacing the HFRI Equity Hedge Total Index by 12 percentage points a year and beating the S&P 500 Index by 17 percentage points, including dividends.

Hard Times
The market has not been kind to long-short stock pickers in recent years

Source: Bloomberg



But the years since haven’t been as kind. Even after accounting for Einhorn’s prescient Lehman bet, Greenlight has returned just 1.1 percent a year from 2007 to 2018, lagging the HFRI index by 1.8 percentage points a year and the S&P 500 by 6 percentage points. The fund was also down 34 percent in 2018, its worst year on record.

Ever the incurable performance chasers, investors are fleeing the fund. Greenlight’s assets dipped below $3 billion this year, down from $12 billion five years ago. Suffice it to say, now would be a bad time to lose a high-profile battle with Musk.

expensive. As the Wall Street adage warns, “The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.”

Going Long
Tesla has defied short-sellers since its initial public offering in 2010

Source: Bloomberg



For Einhorn, this market has been irrational for an unbearably long time. Tesla shares rose 46 percent in 2017 and 6.9 percent in 2018 before declining 18 percent this year through Tuesday. And it’s not just Tesla. The most expensive and least profitable companies — traditional fodder for short-sellers — have been the best performers in recent years.

The pain is evident far beyond Greenlight. The HFRI index returned just 2.9 percent a year from 2007 to 2018, down from 17 percent a year from 1990 to 2006. But just as Einhorn’s fame helped popularize long-short investing during its golden age, it’s likely to invite skepticism about the investing style if his recent stumbles continue. More than cars are riding on the feud between Einhorn and Musk.

This column does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the editorial board or Bloomberg LP and its owners.

To contact the author of this story:
Nir Kaissar at nkaissar1@bloomberg.net

To contact the editor responsible for this story:
Daniel Niemi at dniemi1@bloomberg.net


Have a confidential tip for our reporters?
GET IN TOUCH
Before it's here, it's on the Bloomberg Terminal.
LEARN MORE
You've reached your free article limit.
Get unlimited access for $1.99/mo.
View Offers Sign in

Bloomberg Anywhere clients get Watch Live TVListen to Live Radio

Popular in Opinion
READ MORE FROM OPINION

Terms of Service

Trademarks Privacy Policy ©2019 Bloomberg L.P. All Rights Reserved
Careers Made in NYC Advertise Ad Choices Contact Us Help


tpid=bbe5c8e9-395a-4b13-8452-d1ebd8f3dc41
tpid=UA-11413116-1

You've reached your free article limit.
View Subscription Offers Sign in

Bloomberg Anywhere clients get free access
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top