tsla worth more than walmart, even though wmt did $500 billion MORE in revenue

[AbbotAle]

Yes, no issue over the being careful argument. But it's the emotional rejection I don't get...
Check the Tesla 2020 thread where I posted the most convincing Tesla business model proposition detailed by a known Tesla fan club.
The model is detailed and simple and that presentation turned me from a Tesla naysayer to a Tesla believer. When you're done, you will see that Tesla is not a car company, it's an energy company looking to displace the oil and coal industries. Cars and just the packaging for the batteries...

Yes, good point, TSLA is arguably not a car company as you say. Some also suggest their software is where the value lies, not the making of cars.

Whatever the case, fortunes are going to be made and lost on this stock over the next several years, regardless of whether the movement is up or down.

 

[GrowleyMonster]

Nobody else is making production, road ready, street/highway legal electric cars for $50k that have a pure electric range of over 300 miles. And it's not the software. Or the BMS. Or the batteries. It's not the motors or the styling. It's the everything optimized and working together. It's the effort to actually build a practical EV and the ongoing fight to eliminate or mitigate compromises that up til now have been accepted as part of the EV experience. Tesla engineers will never tell you "Oh, well it is an electric car, and you know, you can't expect THAT kind of performance if you want to go electric". No, they keep trying to make it better, and they are doing an excellent job of matching cutting edge state of the art with practicalities of economics and consumer expertise. All the other power and engineering products and projects are just spinoffs from the cars, leveraged and optimized for other applications.

Look for Tesla to come out with the next big thing in batteries. There are lots of battery chemistries that have a higher energy density, lower minimum State Of Charge, higher max charge/discharge rates, longer usable lifespan, blah blah blah than Lithium Ion cells but cost, safety, and other factors have kept the current level of battery technology for automotive applications where it is. So who has the money and the incentive and the drive to push onward through the fog? Only one. Tesla. They are going to totally rock the energy storage world sometime in the next three years. The weak link in electric propulsion in both land and marine applications is and always has been the batteries. We have very efficient motors of various types, and very efficient controllers. Once your efficiency is in the mid 90's you are definitely in the diminishing returns range when it comes to pouring more money and research into miniscule incremental improvements. Batteries are NOT anywhere even CLOSE to that level of efficiency Even though for over 100 years, a better battery has always been the holy grail ever since the Baker Electric and the Edison Cell. (Google is your friend.) A 50% improvement in every relevant characteristic will make the infernal combustion engine look pretty antiquated, for mobile applications.

Solar cells should be on Tesla's list of things to fix, too. Now there is a very real limit in how much energy a solar cell can produce, because there is a finite amount of energy striking it. Nevertheless a significant improvement is possible. Envision if you will, a NEV (Neighborhood Electric Vehicle, AKA street legal golf cart) that charges itself between grocery runs or dropping the rugrats off at school or even makes short work commutes. Maybe with a very small gasoline or diesel generator onboard for charging when the weather isn't cooperating, with a smart controller to start it and manage the charge while sensing solar energy levels and evaluating weather forecasts. And user adjustments to the algorithm to tweak the fuel usage at the expense of reliability for the truly green driver. Pedals for emergency get-home power? Or just more batteries, including a separate, isolated backup bank? I see a future for solar cells completely covering a car's body, and solar carports where you simply park and a smart charger interrogates the car's master controller and plugs in and charges, drawing from the grid when indicated by the car's prevailing usage pattern. It is this sort of interrelated disciplines that Tesla has found necessary to master and they are getting pretty good at it while still keeping it approachable by the typical middle class or upper working class American.

I agree, the stock is in a bubble. But the company is still going to shake things up and their cars and other products will always be at the top of the performance/cost envelope. And they are designed by Americans for Americans in America.

 

[Cuddles]

Nobody else is making production, road ready, street/highway legal electric cars for $50k that have a pure electric range of over 300 miles. And it's not the software. Or the BMS. Or the batteries. It's not the motors or the styling. It's the everything optimized and working together. It's the effort to actually build a practical EV and the ongoing fight to eliminate or mitigate compromises that up til now have been accepted as part of the EV experience. Tesla engineers will never tell you "Oh, well it is an electric car, and you know, you can't expect THAT kind of performance if you want to go electric". No, they keep trying to make it better, and they are doing an excellent job of matching cutting edge state of the art with practicalities of economics and consumer expertise. All the other power and engineering products and projects are just spinoffs from the cars, leveraged and optimized for other applications.

Look for Tesla to come out with the next big thing in batteries. There are lots of battery chemistries that have a higher energy density, lower minimum State Of Charge, higher max charge/discharge rates, longer usable lifespan, blah blah blah than Lithium Ion cells but cost, safety, and other factors have kept the current level of battery technology for automotive applications where it is. So who has the money and the incentive and the drive to push onward through the fog? Only one. Tesla. They are going to totally rock the energy storage world sometime in the next three years. The weak link in electric propulsion in both land and marine applications is and always has been the batteries. We have very efficient motors of various types, and very efficient controllers. Once your efficiency is in the mid 90's you are definitely in the diminishing returns range when it comes to pouring more money and research into miniscule incremental improvements. Batteries are NOT anywhere even CLOSE to that level of efficiency Even though for over 100 years, a better battery has always been the holy grail ever since the Baker Electric and the Edison Cell. (Google is your friend.) A 50% improvement in every relevant characteristic will make the infernal combustion engine look pretty antiquated, for mobile applications.

Solar cells should be on Tesla's list of things to fix, too. Now there is a very real limit in how much energy a solar cell can produce, because there is a finite amount of energy striking it. Nevertheless a significant improvement is possible. Envision if you will, a NEV (Neighborhood Electric Vehicle, AKA street legal golf cart) that charges itself between grocery runs or dropping the rugrats off at school or even makes short work commutes. Maybe with a very small gasoline or diesel generator onboard for charging when the weather isn't cooperating, with a smart controller to start it and manage the charge while sensing solar energy levels and evaluating weather forecasts. And user adjustments to the algorithm to tweak the fuel usage at the expense of reliability for the truly green driver. Pedals for emergency get-home power? Or just more batteries, including a separate, isolated backup bank? I see a future for solar cells completely covering a car's body, and solar carports where you simply park and a smart charger interrogates the car's master controller and plugs in and charges, drawing from the grid when indicated by the car's prevailing usage pattern. It is this sort of interrelated disciplines that Tesla has found necessary to master and they are getting pretty good at it while still keeping it approachable by the typical middle class or upper working class American.

I agree, the stock is in a bubble. But the company is still going to shake things up and their cars and other products will always be at the top of the performance/cost envelope. And they are designed by Americans for Americans in America.

Chevy bolt and Hyundai Kona come to mind as meeting your requirements. Not exactly 300mi, but not 50k either. Not the best styling however.

Batteries have a physical energy density limit. Battery efficiencies are already relatively high.

https://thebulletin.org/2009/01/the-limits-of-energy-storage-technology/

 

[RainMaker3000]

 

[Turveyd]

Solar cells should be on Tesla's list of things to fix, too. Now there is a very real limit in how much energy a solar cell can produce, because there is a finite amount of energy striking it. Nevertheless a significant improvement is possible. Envision if you will, a NEV (Neighborhood Electric Vehicle, AKA street legal golf cart) that charges itself between grocery runs or dropping the rugrats off at school or even makes short work commutes. Maybe with a very small gasoline or diesel generator onboard for charging when the weather isn't cooperating, with a smart controller to start it and manage the charge while sensing solar energy levels and evaluating weather forecasts. And user adjustments to the algorithm to tweak the fuel usage at the expense of reliability for the truly green driver. Pedals for emergency get-home power? Or just more batteries, including a separate, isolated backup bank? I see a future for solar cells completely covering a car's body, and solar carports where you simply park and a smart charger interrogates the car's master controller and plugs in and charges, drawing from the grid when indicated by the car's prevailing usage pattern. It is this sort of interrelated disciplines that Tesla has found necessary to master and they are getting pretty good at it while still keeping it approachable by the typical middle class or upper working class American.

The Golf Car, would be ideal for small town trips and could be built cheap ( but Safe ? ) Top speed 30mph City Car, tiny motor, solar on the roof, but it would need batteries to charge to be charged by the solar all day, while It's outside to be able to do that little trips you do, day in day out. And when it gets a bit low over the winter you top up the batteries occasionally.

Doing it at a price people can afford a 2nd car and making it safe enough like a regular car incase hit by a regular car at speed and cheap enough to insure / maintenance wise aswell, nobody wants a 2nd MOT bill and service costs.

Heard someones got a EV out, 160mile range, barely do 70mph so motorway legal UK limit, batteries are removeable in 90seconds and only £10K. Sounds like an ideal perfect car to me, might even buy 1 if the 2nd battery pack isn't to much and fits in the car, as I do occasonally need a 220mile range, also I'd have to take the battery into the house to charge as just road side parking. So 2 would be ideal, 1 in the car, 1 on charge then long trips take both fully charged and really long trips find a high speed charger, hour off after 3hours of driving is fine.

Don't think this was the car, I read about not battery swappable so no use to me as won't be able to charge, but $9000 perfect.

https://newatlas.com/tata-readies-indica-vista-ev-for-market/17156/

 

[vanzandt]

The Golf Car, would be ideal for small town trips and could be built cheap ( but Safe ? ) Top speed 30mph City Car, tiny motor, solar on the roof, but it would need batteries to charge to be charged by the solar all day, while It's outside to be able to do that little trips you do, day in day out. And when it gets a bit low over the winter you top up the batteries occasionally.

Doing it at a price people can afford a 2nd car and making it safe enough like a regular car incase hit by a regular car at speed and cheap enough to insure / maintenance wise aswell, nobody wants a 2nd MOT bill and service costs.

Heard someones got a EV out, 160mile range, barely do 70mph so motorway legal UK limit, batteries are removeable in 90seconds and only £10K. Sounds like an ideal perfect car to me, might even buy 1 if the 2nd battery pack isn't to much and fits in the car, as I do occasonally need a 220mile range, also I'd have to take the battery into the house to charge as just road side parking. So 2 would be ideal, 1 in the car, 1 on charge then long trips take both fully charged and really long trips find a high speed charger, hour off after 3hours of driving is fine.

Don't think this was the car, I read about not battery swappable so no use to me as won't be able to charge, but $9000 perfect.

https://newatlas.com/tata-readies-indica-vista-ev-for-market/17156/

One word guys.... Rivian.
Ok 2 words. Ford.
You'll see.

Edit... 3 words....
Amazon

 

[Turveyd]

One word guys.... Rivian.
Ok 2 words. Ford.
You'll see.

Edit... 3 words....
Amazon

On Hold since April ??

Hardly cheap and practical, bigger the car like a petrol, more juice you have to suck from the grid and has to be produced mostly from Gas in the UK, some Coal turned to dust.

 

[vanzandt]

On Hold since April ??

Hardly cheap and practical, bigger the car like a petrol, more juice you have to suck from the grid and has to be produced mostly from Gas in the UK, some Coal turned to dust.

AMZN is in bed with these guys big-time. Ford may not have "deep pockets" atm, but they know a thing or two about building cars.

AMZN has ordered 200,000 vehicles and that's just a start. Bezo's is going to be carbon neutral very soon. What else is he gonna do with $200 Billion ya know. So yeah these vans may not work for you, but AMZN needs cargo space Turv. Ford's a steal btw. $6.50 and a 13.5% dividend. At least for our lifetimes, as long as there's an America, there'll be a Ford.

 

[KCalhoun]

TSLA is to the auto industry what AAPL was to pcs, a successfully managed disruptor. Great forward growth ahead.

I'm not going to buy the stock at these levels though

 

[Turveyd]

AMZN is in bed with these guys big-time. Ford may not have "deep pockets" atm, but they know a thing or two about building cars.

AMZN has ordered 200,000 vehicles and that's just a start. Bezo's is going to be carbon neutral very soon. What else is he gonna do with $200 Billion ya know. So yeah these vans may not work for you, but AMZN needs cargo space Turv. Ford's a steal btw. $6.50 and a 13.5% dividend. At least for our lifetimes, as long as there's an America, there'll be a Ford.

Just did a quick google, on hold, maybe just covid related hold mind or changed since.

Since going full time trader, I've been using my car about once per week, battery isn't liking it so I park facing down the hill.

Electric Scooter soon, looks ideal for local travel.