Trying to get into day trading properly, seeking advice, live in london....

[i am nobody]

The only way to learn how to trade is to trade, period....

If that is true, doctors should just start to do operations without any education. I am happy they don't because then I would be on graveyard now instead of posting here.
In fact they should even not be called doctors then as they had no education.

Let's close all schools and universities. Just choose what you like to do and do it. No questions asked.

Even with an education most people cannot trade profitably...
The least you can do is trade in simulation and see what happens.

 

[yiehom]

The shenanigans are still current, they just have to program a line to add some extra amount of pips to the spread at precise times like NFP or FOMC releases. Imho, that is an issue with the dubious brokers, not with the fx market per se.
You don't have that with the CME currencies futures.

My personal experience is that futures are easier then forex. I traded +5 years forex fulltime before moving to futures.
But it is personal, so can be different from person to person. Prices in forex seemed to me to be manipulated and my open position was always known by the counterparty, which was in my case Prudential (Bache) Securities. I was lucky that I had a Teletrac, so could see realtime prices, and Prudential knew this so they could not manipulate a lot.
I know cases where prices were manipulated by 10 pips!!! My dentist who traded forex also but had no realtime info, came to me and ask, while watching my screen, a quote from his broker. Quote was 10 pips away from the market. When my dentist told them they were cheating, they were very silent. Dentist closed his account. At that time there was no internet so cheating was very easy.

 

[Ben Green]

If that is true, doctors should just start to do operations without any education. I am happy they don't because then I would be on graveyard now instead of posting here.
In fact they should even not be called doctors then as they had no education.

Let's close all schools and universities. Just choose what you like to do and do it. No questions asked.

Even with an education most people cannot trade profitably...
The least you can do is trade in simulation and see what happens.

We are not doctors and not risking anyone's life. All I am saying is that you can do all the testing and sim trading you want, however Mr Market will always be the best teacher.

 

[i am nobody]

We are not doctors and not risking anyone's life. All I am saying is that you can do all the testing and sim trading you want, however Mr Market will always be the best teacher.

Trading is like going to war, so you should be well prepared, no just go to war to learn how to fight. You need a lot of knowledge about the markets BEFORE you start to trade. If not you get killed at the first attempt. But I agree that the real trading will show how good you were prepared.

 

[Gotcha]

Trading is like going to war, so you should be well prepared, no just go to war to learn how to fight. You need a lot of knowledge about the markets BEFORE you start to trade. If not you get killed at the first attempt. But I agree that the real trading will show how good you were prepared.

At the same time, I do also believe that trading has to only be as difficult as you make it.

Suppose you find some combination of parameters that produces a successful outcome 60% of the time for a slightly bigger win than a loss... the so called edge. And now suppose that you're either smart enough (or stupid enough, which in this case is a good thing), to just follow this exactly how you've tested it out and not change a thing. In this case, do you really need to know more?

I think that usually, most traders get creative and start thinking on the fly, making rules up as they go, taking trades they don't know how to take, etc. It takes a very long time to learn discipline, but if you come into this with a huge amount of discipline, and stick to just doing that one thing that you've seen works over and over again, then perhaps you don't need to know more.

 

[wartrace]

The only way to learn how to trade is to trade, period....

I learned a LOT from my time sim trading. I use the DOM/tape with no indicators and the many hours spent observing the orderflow. It would have been a disaster if I had jumped right in with real money. In my opinion it is best to sim trade until you are right AT LEAST 60% of the time. Why would anyone jump in without testing the waters?

 

[Gotcha]

I learned a LOT from my time sim trading. I use the DOM/tape with no indicators and the many hours spent observing the orderflow. It would have been a disaster if I had jumped right in with real money. In my opinion it is best to sim trade until you are right AT LEAST 60% of the time. Why would anyone jump in without testing the waters?

A lot of things happen when money is on the line. Suppose that your testing tells you that you have a 60% change of hitting a profit of 4 points versus a loss of 2 points. Pretty good odds, right? And suppose that you've simmed this for quite some time.

But suppose that when you start trading real money, you find that after your first losing trade, you get into a winner, but don't hold it for 4 points, you just get out at a profit of 2 points because at least you've back to break even. Well what you've done now is completely changed that statistical nature of your trade methods that should make you be profitable.

When money is on the line, everything changes. I've read that the pain of a loss doesn't equal how much pleasure you get from a win. When you're SIM trading, its all just points, but when you're trading live, its actually money that goes up and down. Now should it be this way? Of course not. But if you see that when trading live, you have trouble holding onto a slight winner because you're scared of it going against you, then lots of changes will need to be made.

So I think live trading needs to be a component of SIM trading and learning how to trade. Its only when trading live that you learn where the real problems are.

 

[wartrace]

And don't use Level 2 either, it will hinder as much as it helps which makes it worthless. Your profits will be generated via your proper analysis not because of what Level 2 shows.

Do people use Level 2 to make money (or save them money). Sure, but they've probably got 10-15 years of experience over you of utilising Level 2.

Unless of course your trading style uses level two data.

 

[wartrace]

A lot of things happen when money is on the line. Suppose that your testing tells you that you have a 60% change of hitting a profit of 4 points versus a loss of 2 points. Pretty good odds, right? And suppose that you've simmed this for quite some time.

But suppose that when you start trading real money, you find that after your first losing trade, you get into a winner, but don't hold it for 4 points, you just get out at a profit of 2 points because at least you've back to break even. Well what you've done now is completely changed that statistical nature of your trade methods that should make you be profitable.

When money is on the line, everything changes. I've read that the pain of a loss doesn't equal how much pleasure you get from a win. When you're SIM trading, its all just points, but when you're trading live, its actually money that goes up and down. Now should it be this way? Of course not. But if you see that when trading live, you have trouble holding onto a slight winner because you're scared of it going against you, then lots of changes will need to be made.

So I think live trading needs to be a component of SIM trading and learning how to trade. Its only when trading live that you learn where the real problems are.

My point is you should not jump into live trading until you can make in sim. Eventually you have to go live however there is no shame in trading sim. If you can't trade profitably in sim you have no business trading live.

 

[Gotcha]

My point is you should not jump into live trading until you can make in sim. Eventually you have to go live however there is no shame in trading sim. If you can't trade profitably in sim you have no business trading live.

This is true. I cannot imagine a person doing poorly in SIM and then doing better live, but we of course know how many traders do well in SIM and not nearly as good when going live.