Truth for Beginners
- Thread starter longhorns24
- Start date
Perhaps he was a little bit harsh but I reckon Trader Zones was right on the money.
The plain truth is that it's just damn hard for any beginner to understand how the market really works. There are traders at my office who have been there for at least a couple years, and they are still struggling, still grasping at straws, they will make money for stretches at a time but once the names they're used to trading change, they are back to square one.
The biggest problem for beginners is that they are just too scared to really be able to just sit down and figure out for themselves how things work, they have no confidence whatsoever (understandably). I see struggling traders latching on to this method or that, just because the guy next to him seems to be profitable (and there is no dearth in those who will take advantage of said traders, beware). Yet somehow things still never work out when you're not learning for yourself.
The truth is, everything you need to know is right in front of you, day in, day out. Don't be afraid to find your own road, cuz in the end, either it's gonna work and you'll be fine, or you're just totally off, whereby the market will rectify with eventual losses. Persistence and experience (not to mention tuition capital) will be your two biggest assets, the former just comes hand in hand with the latter. Give little faith to those who blatanly offer their "help" (hint: overrides) find the ones that just keep their head down and keep doing what they are doing, and you might pry some vague nugget of truth to nudge you along the right track.
The biggest problem for beginners is that they are just too scared to really be able to just sit down and figure out for themselves how things work, they have no confidence whatsoever (understandably). I see struggling traders latching on to this method or that, just because the guy next to him seems to be profitable (and there is no dearth in those who will take advantage of said traders, beware). Yet somehow things still never work out when you're not learning for yourself.
The truth is, everything you need to know is right in front of you, day in, day out. Don't be afraid to find your own road, cuz in the end, either it's gonna work and you'll be fine, or you're just totally off, whereby the market will rectify with eventual losses. Persistence and experience (not to mention tuition capital) will be your two biggest assets, the former just comes hand in hand with the latter. Give little faith to those who blatanly offer their "help" (hint: overrides) find the ones that just keep their head down and keep doing what they are doing, and you might pry some vague nugget of truth to nudge you along the right track.
Context, dumbass.
(From my perspective)....
Personality has a lot to do with new traders ability to grasp and execute market mechanics properly. What seems so natural to many of us long term traders, seem alien to new people. We try to explain conceptually the things that make stocks move and we try to show by example the "what is working".... and I have several of my top traders explain (from different points of view and background) the "how" of making money. We continue this in our various trading/mentoring groups.
Even with all this, a lot boils down to (yes) "personality" of people new to trading. For example, a CEO from a Fortune 500 company may "delegate" some of the learning process, or not bother examining the particulars of, say..."premium/discount" to FV and why the stocks will follow suit. They may not take the time to understand why pivot points work (often technical, always self-fulfilling).... and then the new trader who has taken some time to immerse themselves in the "why" of "how" things work...will learn more quickly.
It's almost like taking two different personality types (we have a dozen that I can probably define) starting any new business venture. They might both start a franchise in the same town. One might take the time to do traffic studies, ethno-analysis, bus routes, etc.....the other might just "assume" that these sandwich shops "should" make money because they paid for the franchise.
I sometimes get the "hey, I've been a MM or Specialist for 20 years" types that worry me to death, LOL. After trying to adapt to the extreme difference of not trading from order flow, as professional traders must do, and losing money...they either control their ego's and try to learn, or simply go away.
I do my best with all personality types, but honestly prefer the people who are willing to listen to established traders... those who don't expect too much too soon...those who understand that this business takes time, money, training, and "time in the saddle." No "paper trading" (except maybe for platform basics).. but real cash in the game type trading.
Some adapt quickly to simple mechanics and read the markets pretty well. Some look for automation, some do both. In my opinion, a trader must be multi-faceted, and know when to automate and when to simply define entry and exit points.
Trading is a business, and should be approached that way. No "rose colored glasses" but also, without "fear." Since my brother and I have been the "they" (as in "they" must know something)...and realize that there is no "they" - it is simply a business that must be learned. Don't overcomplicate trading, and don't try to rush your way into it.
From my perch....
FWIW,
Don
Personality has a lot to do with new traders ability to grasp and execute market mechanics properly. What seems so natural to many of us long term traders, seem alien to new people. We try to explain conceptually the things that make stocks move and we try to show by example the "what is working".... and I have several of my top traders explain (from different points of view and background) the "how" of making money. We continue this in our various trading/mentoring groups.
Even with all this, a lot boils down to (yes) "personality" of people new to trading. For example, a CEO from a Fortune 500 company may "delegate" some of the learning process, or not bother examining the particulars of, say..."premium/discount" to FV and why the stocks will follow suit. They may not take the time to understand why pivot points work (often technical, always self-fulfilling).... and then the new trader who has taken some time to immerse themselves in the "why" of "how" things work...will learn more quickly.
It's almost like taking two different personality types (we have a dozen that I can probably define) starting any new business venture. They might both start a franchise in the same town. One might take the time to do traffic studies, ethno-analysis, bus routes, etc.....the other might just "assume" that these sandwich shops "should" make money because they paid for the franchise.
I sometimes get the "hey, I've been a MM or Specialist for 20 years" types that worry me to death, LOL. After trying to adapt to the extreme difference of not trading from order flow, as professional traders must do, and losing money...they either control their ego's and try to learn, or simply go away.
I do my best with all personality types, but honestly prefer the people who are willing to listen to established traders... those who don't expect too much too soon...those who understand that this business takes time, money, training, and "time in the saddle." No "paper trading" (except maybe for platform basics).. but real cash in the game type trading.
Some adapt quickly to simple mechanics and read the markets pretty well. Some look for automation, some do both. In my opinion, a trader must be multi-faceted, and know when to automate and when to simply define entry and exit points.
Trading is a business, and should be approached that way. No "rose colored glasses" but also, without "fear." Since my brother and I have been the "they" (as in "they" must know something)...and realize that there is no "they" - it is simply a business that must be learned. Don't overcomplicate trading, and don't try to rush your way into it.
From my perch....
FWIW,
Don
Longhorns,
I've been trading for a long while in multiple markets and have experienced many polar highs and lows before settling down and becoming a month by month consistent trader.
From my experience, as someone who almost put himself out of this business multiple times, expect to lose money. I understand what TraderZone said to you and he's absolutely right..... he just didn't explain his reasoning.
For myself, and probably 99% of guys who have been able to make a living doing this, it's ridiculous to hear a young kid saying that making 200 a day for the first few months is just okay. You need to understand that if you can manage to just get out EVEN in the first year then you should be happy, forget about 200 a day which would be almost 50k a year in wages earned. To make big money you have to put in time and be willing to get beat down until it clicks for you. Then if you are able to get good enough to get into consistent winners you have to have the discipline and self control to manage them and take the most out of them. Actually picking winners isn't the hard part, the hard part is managing winners against losers so that they are either bigger or much more consistant than losers. And you only gain that thru experience. Not to mention this is one of the only jobs where you have to have money to pay for your own phone, health insurance, office, computer, charts, data from the exchanges, different markets books, etc..... And that's before you have to pay for just simply putting on a trade.
Someone wrote that you should be prepared not to make a living for atleast two years..... AND HE'S RIGHT.
You'll make money some months but not a living. So make sure that you're either living at home, have a part time job or have very rich parents willing to bank roll your lifestyle.
There is a bright light at the end of the tunnel if you are lucky enough to put it all together, and no I'm not talking about 200 a day. I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic. You are going to lose money and are out of your mind to think you will make any amount of money consistently for a long while. There's a reason that everyone doesn't do this job and it's b/c it's a long and frustrating process getting to the level you want to be at.
However if you are able to become successful.... you get to work 6 hour days in sweat pants while you bullshit with a bunch of your friends about last nights Yankee game and make a couple of hundred grand a year or more doing so.
I've been trading for a long while in multiple markets and have experienced many polar highs and lows before settling down and becoming a month by month consistent trader.
From my experience, as someone who almost put himself out of this business multiple times, expect to lose money. I understand what TraderZone said to you and he's absolutely right..... he just didn't explain his reasoning.
For myself, and probably 99% of guys who have been able to make a living doing this, it's ridiculous to hear a young kid saying that making 200 a day for the first few months is just okay. You need to understand that if you can manage to just get out EVEN in the first year then you should be happy, forget about 200 a day which would be almost 50k a year in wages earned. To make big money you have to put in time and be willing to get beat down until it clicks for you. Then if you are able to get good enough to get into consistent winners you have to have the discipline and self control to manage them and take the most out of them. Actually picking winners isn't the hard part, the hard part is managing winners against losers so that they are either bigger or much more consistant than losers. And you only gain that thru experience. Not to mention this is one of the only jobs where you have to have money to pay for your own phone, health insurance, office, computer, charts, data from the exchanges, different markets books, etc..... And that's before you have to pay for just simply putting on a trade.
Someone wrote that you should be prepared not to make a living for atleast two years..... AND HE'S RIGHT.
You'll make money some months but not a living. So make sure that you're either living at home, have a part time job or have very rich parents willing to bank roll your lifestyle.
There is a bright light at the end of the tunnel if you are lucky enough to put it all together, and no I'm not talking about 200 a day. I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic. You are going to lose money and are out of your mind to think you will make any amount of money consistently for a long while. There's a reason that everyone doesn't do this job and it's b/c it's a long and frustrating process getting to the level you want to be at.
However if you are able to become successful.... you get to work 6 hour days in sweat pants while you bullshit with a bunch of your friends about last nights Yankee game and make a couple of hundred grand a year or more doing so.
LOL
I agree that it was almost funny that a successful person would not immerse himself in his newly chosen vocation...but what are you going to do?
Don