From a humanitarian standpoint, I hope a deal is reached. So much more to say on this subject, but am so busy. Hopefully can fully address lastest developments tonight or tomorrow.
Trump bows to Un's Demands
- Thread starter Spike Trader
- Start date
From a humanitarian standpoint, I hope a deal is reached. So much more to say on this subject, but am so busy. Hopefully can fully address lastest developments tonight or tomorrow.
LRM is in a position where he needs to partner bigtime with someone to survive. I am realistic about the fact that all these things that would help north korea would not necessarily help his true goal which is just for his regime to survive. As westerners we hold out all this stuff about improved trade, relations etc- but those are things that would benefit north korea- but only benefit kim for a year or so. After that, the exposure to western culture will rip his regime down in some way or form. He is running a wall-to-wall gulag now.
No one should be so naive as to think that both the ruskies and the chinese are not telling him that if he would just tone it down a bit they can help him more in a way that will keep his regime in power without letting the americans and south koreans into his tent.
That is not pretty either though. The ruskies are invasive as hell once they get into your tent and they are not there for Chubby. And the chinese dont want the ruskies right there. On the other hand relations with the chinese are mixed and culturally the koreans yearn to be united with other koreans not a bunch of ruskies and chinese. Yeh sure, it is scary for the North Koreans to hear all these quips about the Libyan Model. On the other hand, LRM needs to think about the "Tibet Model" if he wants to start cozying up to the Chinese. Those fuckers aren't in the game to preserve Korean Culture and the South Koreans know that too.
I dont have a solution to all of that for him. As discussed, I am realistic that he is tough nut to crack, but he has big, big problems if we confront him and equally big if we dont. Some of the behind the scenes types who have come "to help him" aren't necessarily friends in the long term and are interested in colonizing his country. The lefties will argue that the Americans are doing the same thing- except LRM can look at South Korea and see whether things have worked out for them or not.
Agreed. I think this is the most pressing issue for LRM long term. How to keep the people from 'knowing'.
Love is in the air again! And everyone is getting all kissy-faced again.
So do we now have to do another big analytical round of everything Trump did that was right or wrong?
Give it a rest mates. It is all part of the dance. We dont need to do past life regression analysis of Trump and Pence on every little thing. Little Rocket Man is going to be difficult and Trump is going to be difficult too. CNN will be histrionic and Don Lemmon will have estrogen-driven mood-swings every step of the way. It just goes with the turf. But are we nuking or fighting about getting together or not getting together? The answer is "fighting about getting together." Sometimes that's a good thing.
So do we now have to do another big analytical round of everything Trump did that was right or wrong?
Give it a rest mates. It is all part of the dance. We dont need to do past life regression analysis of Trump and Pence on every little thing. Little Rocket Man is going to be difficult and Trump is going to be difficult too. CNN will be histrionic and Don Lemmon will have estrogen-driven mood-swings every step of the way. It just goes with the turf. But are we nuking or fighting about getting together or not getting together? The answer is "fighting about getting together." Sometimes that's a good thing.
Let's face it. South Korea has been an albatross on us for 70 years. What exactly have we ever gotten out of that relationship? Lots of dead Americans in the Korean War and a never-ending commitment to defend a South Korea that is a rich, industrialized country that is perfectly capable of defending itself.
My advice to Trump would be to forge an alliance with North Korea. Then use Rocket Man to apply pressure to South Korea, china and Japan any time they get out of line. it will be a lot cheaper to pay off LRM than to keep 50,000 troops in SK. A dullard like John Bolton would never come up with a plan like this.
My advice to Trump would be to forge an alliance with North Korea. Then use Rocket Man to apply pressure to South Korea, china and Japan any time they get out of line. it will be a lot cheaper to pay off LRM than to keep 50,000 troops in SK. A dullard like John Bolton would never come up with a plan like this.
It is not as far-fetched as it sounds. The lefties here like to go into overdrive every time that there is a little kerfluffle where Trump is appearing as a barbarian in their eyes. They live of course to see Trump fail.
As I said in an earlier post though- which I will not replay- the true dynamics behind the latest flap was that both the Chinese and the South Koreans got nervous bigly that Trump might be getting too generous with North Korea without having China and South Korea at the table. So China called Chubby up to Bejing for a little trip to the woodshed and to say scary things about what the Americans are up to.
They all want Trump to stay within the little bollinger bands they have set for him. Not too hawkish, not too lovey-dovey in a way that interferes with China's and South Korea's perceived right to control Noko's future. Problem is, Trump goes outside the two standard deviations just by getting out of bed in the morning. It's what he does. Russia and Iran of course would like to just see the talks sputter and preserve the status quo so that they can continue to try to buy influence in another country for not much money as the sanctions set in even deeper. China doesnt like that happening either so they have more thinking they need to do.
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Love is in the air again! And everyone is getting all kissy-faced again.
So do we now have to do another big analytical round of everything Trump did that was right or wrong?
Give it a rest mates. It is all part of the dance. We dont need to do past life regression analysis of Trump and Pence on every little thing. Little Rocket Man is going to be difficult and Trump is going to be difficult too. CNN will be histrionic and Don Lemmon will have estrogen-driven mood-swings every step of the way. It just goes with the turf. But are we nuking or fighting about getting together or not getting together? The answer is "fighting about getting together." Sometimes that's a good thing.
The lesson is, if you are not going part of the solution, who needs you? Trump needs to learn from this because as China's economic, military power, and political clout increases, the United States influence in Asia will decrease.
China may end up leading the way in space-based manufacturing on an industrial scale leading to dominance in potentially high margin value-added industrial and military goods while we stay busy by beating up third world countries with cruise missiles.
A new age is upon us where cooperation in huge industrial projects will form lasting relationships and long term competative advantages. The United States policy of "Bringing democracy to third world countries" over the last few decades to the benefit of defense contractors and other US based multinational companies looking to open markets for their products is wearing thin diplomatically. This policy cannot be sustained for too much longer as more and more countries seek sanctuary with alternative global powers.
A new paradigm is upon us and Trump needs our best people help him come up with a solid plan in order to keep us competative and relevant.
Trump's letter to Kim has been copied by hand is reformatted to facilitate the addition of comments. Comments are inline below:
His Excellency
Kim Jong Un
Chairman of the State Affairs Commission
Of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea
Pyongyang
Dear Mr. Chairman:
We greatly appreciate your time, patience, and effort in respect to our recent negotiations and discussions relative to a summit long sought by both parties, which was scheduled to take place on June 12 in Singapore.
We were informed that the meeting was requested by North Korea, but that is totally irrelevant.
This is a counter productive comment in several ways. Trump appears to be trying to diminish Kim's own standing and well as the standing of North Korea. In fact, Kim should be encouraged and complemented on finally being willing to negotiate.
Perhaps Trump could have said this instead:
We are very encouraged with your offer to meet us. We are living in exciting times and believe because of DPRK's location next to the highly industrustrialized China, the ample resources of Russia, and next to established trade routes to the United States will allow North Korea to participate in an unprecedented economic opportunity. Although US relations with China could be better and are outright bad with Russia, I believe things will improve as there is great incentive for us all to cooperate.
I was very much looking forward to being there with you. Sadly, based on the tremendous anger and open hostility displayed in your most recent statement, I feel it is inappropriate, at this time, to have this long-planned meeting.
How can Trump be so thin skinned? He can dish it out, but he can't take it when he gets some of it back? Trump is a New Yorker, for God's sake, where "fook you" is sometimes used as a term of endearment!
How about:
Kim, there has been 70 years of mistrust between our great countries and we will not likely be able to completely overcome this history between us in a single meeting. However, I wish to reassure you we are committed to exploring a mutually beneficial treaty between DPRK and the United States.
Therefore,please let this letter serve to represent that the Singapore summit, for the good of both parties, but to the detriment of the world, will not take place.
You don't cancel a meeting that has global implications over a simple insult.
You talk about your nuclear capabilities, but ours are so massive and powerful that I pray to God they never have to be used.
There is no benefit here in comparing size and quality when you should be exploring friendship.
Perhaps this:
I am truly amazed what you have been able to accomplish as the leader of DPRK. You have both built nuclear weapons and intercontinental ballistic missiles. This puts you in an exclusive club. I believe your able leadership will allow DPRK will accomplish a great many more things and we hope to be a integral part of this.
The idea above is to assure Kim that we recognize his leadership and are willing to consider agreements beyond a peace treaty.
I felt a wonderful dialogue was building up between you and me, and ultimately, it is only that dialogue that matters. Some day, I look very forward to meeting with you. In the meantime, I want to thank you for the release of the hostages who are now home their families. That was a beautiful gesture and was very much appreciated.
The statement above is inconsistent with the earlier statement that implied Kim is irrelevant. Trump then used the emotionally charged word: "hostages". Sometimes a little PC can be good. At least trump thanked Kim for the gesture.
Better may be:
Thank you for the return and good care of the detainees. They have been returned to their greatful families. I am distressed to learn that due to ongoing weather issues in your country, there may be shortages of food for your hard-working citizens. Although it would be politically difficult to do all I want to do for you at this time, would it be possible for us to arrange a, at least temporary, relief effort?
I believe we should show some reciprocity with a meaningful gesture and reinforce the idea there are benefits for North Korea to reach an agreement with the United States. This does not have to be a giveaway. Rather it should be in exchange for compensation in some way. Perhaps in the form of credit or favorable trade terms.
If you change your mind having to do with this most important summit, please do not hestitate to call me or write. The World, North Korea in particular, has lost a great opportunity for lasting peace and great prosperity and wealth. This missed opportunity is a truly sad moment in history.
Now Trump sounds conciliatory but blaming Kim for cancelling the meeting. At least it sounds like there is still hope for a meeting in the future.
The bottom line is Trump should meet with Kim and use his great ability to read people and situations in order to determine if future meetings are likely to be productive. In addition, this will allow Trump to develop an effective negotiation strategy.
Sincerely yours,
Donald J. Trump
Present of the United States of America
His Excellency
Kim Jong Un
Chairman of the State Affairs Commission
Of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea
Pyongyang
Dear Mr. Chairman:
We greatly appreciate your time, patience, and effort in respect to our recent negotiations and discussions relative to a summit long sought by both parties, which was scheduled to take place on June 12 in Singapore.
We were informed that the meeting was requested by North Korea, but that is totally irrelevant.
This is a counter productive comment in several ways. Trump appears to be trying to diminish Kim's own standing and well as the standing of North Korea. In fact, Kim should be encouraged and complemented on finally being willing to negotiate.
Perhaps Trump could have said this instead:
We are very encouraged with your offer to meet us. We are living in exciting times and believe because of DPRK's location next to the highly industrustrialized China, the ample resources of Russia, and next to established trade routes to the United States will allow North Korea to participate in an unprecedented economic opportunity. Although US relations with China could be better and are outright bad with Russia, I believe things will improve as there is great incentive for us all to cooperate.
I was very much looking forward to being there with you. Sadly, based on the tremendous anger and open hostility displayed in your most recent statement, I feel it is inappropriate, at this time, to have this long-planned meeting.
How can Trump be so thin skinned? He can dish it out, but he can't take it when he gets some of it back? Trump is a New Yorker, for God's sake, where "fook you" is sometimes used as a term of endearment!
How about:
Kim, there has been 70 years of mistrust between our great countries and we will not likely be able to completely overcome this history between us in a single meeting. However, I wish to reassure you we are committed to exploring a mutually beneficial treaty between DPRK and the United States.
Therefore,please let this letter serve to represent that the Singapore summit, for the good of both parties, but to the detriment of the world, will not take place.
You don't cancel a meeting that has global implications over a simple insult.
You talk about your nuclear capabilities, but ours are so massive and powerful that I pray to God they never have to be used.
There is no benefit here in comparing size and quality when you should be exploring friendship.
Perhaps this:
I am truly amazed what you have been able to accomplish as the leader of DPRK. You have both built nuclear weapons and intercontinental ballistic missiles. This puts you in an exclusive club. I believe your able leadership will allow DPRK will accomplish a great many more things and we hope to be a integral part of this.
The idea above is to assure Kim that we recognize his leadership and are willing to consider agreements beyond a peace treaty.
I felt a wonderful dialogue was building up between you and me, and ultimately, it is only that dialogue that matters. Some day, I look very forward to meeting with you. In the meantime, I want to thank you for the release of the hostages who are now home their families. That was a beautiful gesture and was very much appreciated.
The statement above is inconsistent with the earlier statement that implied Kim is irrelevant. Trump then used the emotionally charged word: "hostages". Sometimes a little PC can be good. At least trump thanked Kim for the gesture.
Better may be:
Thank you for the return and good care of the detainees. They have been returned to their greatful families. I am distressed to learn that due to ongoing weather issues in your country, there may be shortages of food for your hard-working citizens. Although it would be politically difficult to do all I want to do for you at this time, would it be possible for us to arrange a, at least temporary, relief effort?
I believe we should show some reciprocity with a meaningful gesture and reinforce the idea there are benefits for North Korea to reach an agreement with the United States. This does not have to be a giveaway. Rather it should be in exchange for compensation in some way. Perhaps in the form of credit or favorable trade terms.
If you change your mind having to do with this most important summit, please do not hestitate to call me or write. The World, North Korea in particular, has lost a great opportunity for lasting peace and great prosperity and wealth. This missed opportunity is a truly sad moment in history.
Now Trump sounds conciliatory but blaming Kim for cancelling the meeting. At least it sounds like there is still hope for a meeting in the future.
The bottom line is Trump should meet with Kim and use his great ability to read people and situations in order to determine if future meetings are likely to be productive. In addition, this will allow Trump to develop an effective negotiation strategy.
Sincerely yours,
Donald J. Trump
Present of the United States of America
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