Trump bows to Un's Demands

[exGOPer]

By the definition you just gave all the Democrats are already halfway to becoming "Trump tards". Although I usually only call out and defend against those who unfairly attack generally sound practices and don't go on the offensive, this may have to change. Some Liberal ideas and causes have negative cultural effects and it is important that people fully realize this.

For now, Trump is the only President we got. I'm hoping he succeeds with North Korea and his economic policies continue to bear fruit. Not for his sake, but for everone's sake.

Liberals generally shine so much brighter than the conservatives. They are not tied to as many rules and can be truly innovative in the arts, sciences, and business. I had thoughts it would be cool to have a well thought out gift to Kim. It might be a commemorative mural of some kind showing the people of the world celebrating together. A liberal artist could also convey the emotional power of the South Korean families and North Korean familities being able to visit each other.

Like the movie, "The Shard", I believe The United States would be stronger if Democrats and Republicans were respectful of each other and based their arguments on facts and the country's interests rather than attempting to garner all the power for themselves. There is too much "If the Conservative is for it, then I'm against it type of thinking and vice versa.

The United States needs each political party to focus on America above partisan interests. The witch hunts on both sides have weakened us and has left us with much work to do in order for our country to reach the potential that most of us believes it has.

You must be new here, after all the name calling liberals and Dems are subjected to, 'tard' is the least offensive way of responding to these uncultured indecent hicks.

Trump is not going to succeed with NK for the simple reason that NK reached this position of strength because of their nuclear program, they are not gonna give up their only leverage because the biggest pathological liar known to man 'promises' them a safe passage. He promised us that his taxes are under audit and would be revealed soon, where are they? Unlike public financial disclosure, Kim's life depends on Trump keeping his word, no person with a neuron would believe that liar on anything. Ask Melania.

 

[maximumpossiblesuffering]

You must be new here, after all the name calling liberals and Dems are subjected to, 'tard' is the least offensive way of responding to these uncultured indecent hicks.

Trump is not going to succeed with NK for the simple reason that NK reached this position of strength because of their nuclear program, they are not gonna give up their only leverage because the biggest pathological liar known to man 'promises' them a safe passage. He promised us that his taxes are under audit and would be revealed soon, where are they? Unlike public financial disclosure, Kim's life depends on Trump keeping his word, no person with a neuron would believe that liar on anything. Ask Melania.

For a balanced perspective on name calling, you may want to read exGOPer's posts over the last week. His name calling to content ratio would make a Russian propagandist blush!

North Korea will not and should not give up their nukes. We should not expect them to and should not attempt to make that a condition for a peace and trade treaty. We can have peace with them having nukes like we have peace with France.

The United States has been very aggressive on the geopolitical stage for many years. We have imposed our will on many countries and it is not unreasonable for countries to take defensive action. Imagine the fear a country like North Korea had while watching the U.S. "Play" in Iraq, Croatia, Afganistan, Libya, etc. The North Korean leadership saw and accepted that tremendous sacrifice was necessary in order to develop the bomb in order to secure their sovereignty. North Korean's action seemed necessary given the circumstances. What do you think most leaders would do in North Korea's situation?

The North Koreans won the race and war with them could kill millions of innocent people. As a result the US would likely get nuked and Trump would be a certain political casualty.

The best option appears to recognize North Koreas's new status and to negotiate being aware of the best interests of all the interested parties.

 

[exGOPer]

For a balanced perspective on name calling, you may want to read exGOPer's posts over the last week. His name calling to content ratio would make a Russian propagandist blush!

North Korea will not and should not give up their nukes. We should not expect them to and should not attempt to make that a condition for a peace and trade treaty. We can have peace with them having nukes like we have peace with France.

The United States has been very aggressive on the geopolitical stage for many years. We have imposed our will on many countries and it is not unreasonable for countries to take defensive action. Imagine the fear a country like North Korea had while watching the U.S. "Play" in Iraq, Croatia, Afganistan, Libya, etc. The North Korean leadership saw and accepted that tremendous sacrifice was necessary in order to develop the bomb in order to secure their sovereignty. North Korean's action seemed necessary given the circumstances. What do you think most leaders would do in North Korea's situation?

The North Koreans won the race and war with them could kill millions of innocent people. As a result the US would likely get nuked and Trump would be a certain political casualty.

The best option appears to recognize North Koreas's new status and to negotiate being aware of the best interests of all the interested parties.

Propagandists don't swear, they repeat the same message again and again with multiple logical fallacies (favorite being WHATABOUTISM) and I don't name call anyone who hasn't initiated it, you can check any of the posts.

As for US foreign policy, nothing has changed, in fact with Bolton running FP now, it's back to Bush era rules. All NK has done is dismantle a TESTING facility that was reportedly in bad shape - in exchange for legitimacy, they have made it clear that they are not giving up weapons and testing can be restarted anytime - how is this a good deal I don't know. Nothing but a good photo op exercise.

 

[Cuddles]

Nope, those are the facts.

You keep using that word, it does not mean what you think it means.

 

[maximumpossiblesuffering]

Propagandists don't swear, they repeat the same message again and again with multiple logical fallacies (favorite being WHATABOUTISM) and I don't name call anyone who hasn't initiated it, you can check any of the posts.

As for US foreign policy, nothing has changed, in fact with Bolton running FP now, it's back to Bush era rules. All NK has done is dismantle a TESTING facility that was reportedly in bad shape - in exchange for legitimacy, they have made it clear that they are not giving up weapons and testing can be restarted anytime - how is this a good deal I don't know. Nothing but a good photo op exercise.

There sure has been a lot of repeating on the both sides of many issues. You seem knowlegeable about what propagandists do and don't do. Whether in person or online, people tend to sympathize with those who get sweared at.

Now back to the more important issue: North Korea. With a trade agreement and peace treaty in place, North Korea would have incentive to maintain strong relations with their new allies. Without a peace treaty, the incentive for North Korea to continue on their recent course of weapons development would only be increased.

Ultimately, North Korea is a sovereign country that will do what it wants to do. Perhaps after years of good relations, all the nuclear powers will agree to permanent reduction or elimination of weapons of mass destruction. There should also be agreement on nanotechnology, especially on self replicating and extended energy source type of technologies.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

Ultimately, North Korea is a sovereign country that will do what it wants to do..

I can think of some things that it wants to do that might end out having the U.S. use the "Libya Model" if he does not watch his arse.

 

[exGOPer]

There sure has been a lot of repeating on the both sides of many issues. You seem knowlegeable about what propagandists do and don't do. Whether in person or online, people tend to sympathize with those who get sweared at..

Look at the people I swear at - Poindexter, LacesOut - they give no respect so I offer none in return. You don't back down when a bully yells at you, that only emboldens them to bully others who can't fight back.

Now back to the more important issue: North Korea. With a trade agreement and peace treaty in place, North Korea would have incentive to maintain strong relations with their new allies. Without a peace treaty, the incentive for North Korea to continue on their recent course of weapons development would only be increased.

Ultimately, North Korea is a sovereign country that will do what it wants to do. Perhaps after years of good relations, all the nuclear powers will agree to permanent reduction or elimination of weapons of mass destruction. There should also be agreement on nanotechnology, especially on self replicating and extended energy source type of technologies.

NK already has the weapons, they are going to keep it - what is the deal here? I don't mind NK sanctions being removed and NK citizens having a better life but this notion that Trump is doing something unprecedented is nonsense. If Obama or Clinton stuck a deal where the US got nothing, you guys would be calling them 'pussy' just like one of the posters already did.

 

[maximumpossiblesuffering]

I can think of some things that it wants to do that might end out having the U.S. use the "Libya Model" if he does not watch his arse.

Do you want the US to apply the "Libya Model"? I believe we have the capability now to take Kim out almost at will. His underground train should no longer provide the protection it once did. Hell, we probably could do the whole operation silently. The problem is Kim would certainly has standing orders with trusted generals and others in case he was taken out. Are there any possible standing orders that Kim has that might give us pause?

As in poker, know when your opponent has the better hand and respond accordingly.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

The problem is Kim would certainly has standing orders with trusted generals and others in case he was taken out.

Kim doesn't even dare to announce when he is out of the country to go to China out of fear that those "trusted generals" might have plans of their own that do not include Kim.

Kim better be careful that he does not get too frisky and outsmart himself. He is holding plenty of cards but it would be fatal on his part to assume that he playing poker against Obama.

One of the unsettled items in the negotiations will be that Kim wants assurances that there will be protection against regime change. And I am certainly willing to offer those assurances in exchange for de-nuking.
Where it gets tricky is that Dear Leader..a/k/a Chubby is not all that popular with his own people and once they have start having more contract with western civilization and south korea they will have rising expectations for a better life. So when chubby says he wants protection against regime change does that also mean that American power would be used to protect him from an internal uprising. NOT TO ME IT DOESNT but on the other hand he does not want to de-nuke just to be overthrown by his own people a year later.

Tricky stuff for the Americans but he has big problems and should not try to overplay his hand because it could all go bad on him, and the sanctions weaken him even more everyday.

Right now he is concerned about things like joint training exercises. But what he really needs to watch out for down the road if the negotiations fail is when he sees the south koreans and the americans making plans for the eventual evacuation of Seoul. It is the short range missiles within reach of Seoul that are a problem.

Big opportunity is available to him. If he wants to end out with his chubby arse in the ditch with his face kicked in as Ghadaffi did then he can go that route too.

 

[exGOPer]

Do you want the US to apply the "Libya Model"? I believe we have the capability now to take Kim out almost at will. His underground train should no longer provide the protection it once did. Hell, we probably could do the whole operation silently. The problem is Kim would certainly has standing orders with trusted generals and others in case he was taken out. Are there any possible standing orders that Kim has that might give us pause?

As in poker, know when your opponent has the better hand and respond accordingly.

Libya wasn't attacked because of a Nuclear program, in fact they already gave it up years before which is exactly why NK won't give up their nukes. Gaddafi ruffled Reagan's feathers and then he proposed trading oil for an African based currency which is a threat to American oil interests - then he decided to shoot up his own people and that pretext was used to get rid of him. Since NK is not giving up its nukes, Libya model doesn't apply.