Trouble with Setting Goals

[Flashboy]

Quote from OldTrader:

With all due respect Flashboy, it seems like I've read this same post any number of different times from you. Always the same thing, cutting your winners short. What's new?

Obviously if your "goal" is to "average" 1 point, this implies that some days you do better and some days you don't. There's nothing in this goal the way you phrased it that requires you to take a 1 point profit.

We all have our own methods, our own beliefs. I don't happen to believe in targets of any size, because I think they limit winners. However, I'm not going to go so far as to say that some people don't do well with setting targets. Maybe they do.

But in many cases, the desire to leap out of your winners simply reflects a fear of the market. Fear of loss, maybe even fear of success. Whether this is true of you I wouldn't know. But what I do know is that you continue to post this same problem. So evidently you think it's a problem and evidently you can't control yourself when the market is moving in your favor.

Frankly, I wonder at times whether this has something to do with your entry points. Certain kinds of entry points entail higher risk and more patience, while at the same time giving the potential at least of higher reward. But the trader using these entries needs a certain psychology. Idle speculation on my part since I don't know your methods.

I wonder to myself how exactly a "goal-setting exercise" focused on making a certain number of points is supposed to work to begin with. I mean, when you set this goal what did you expect yourself to do? I would think the goal leads directly to the problem you have.

But how do you set a point goal anyway? You have no control whatsoever over the market. It will do what it does. It's your job to observe, analyze, and then go with it's movement, whether that be a point or two, or more. At least that's what I think MY job is.

If I were setting a goal I might be more tempted to set a goal focused on things I can control....like sticking with my plan for instance, trading my method. Because IF I stick with my plan, THEN I might end up "averaging" a certain number of points over time.

OldTrader

yes OldTRader I have posted this many times before and do still suffer from it...

I've come up with the 1pt. as just an average daily number I feel I can achieve.. And what I do is use that 1 pt. to project possible earning potential (see spreadsheet attached)..

I believe your statement regarding entry points is hitting the nail on the head.. cause I tend to take profits prematurely more often when I have to wait through a little drawdown or wait an extended period of time for the market to go my way.. then once it finally does.. I get anxious and am ready to book my profits..

I guess I continue to post these problems not so much looking for the answer but I like to put it in writing and go over it so I can continue to work on improving myself..

 

[murray t turtle]

Quote from Flashboy:

I've found that setting a daily goal like I have has limited my earning potential.

My goal for the long term is to average 1pt. out of the Mini Russel each day.

I believe by doing this I'm putting limiting beliefs on my possible performance.. Today for example.. got short at 625.90.. bailed at 624.90.. And the market is clearly telling me it looks weak.

I'm trying to focus on the process of trading itself but am finding it very hard to get that $$$$ target out of my head and trade properly.

^^^^^^^
1] Flashboy first off sounds like you are improving ;
you hit your goal,
and your nickname ''Flashboy'' may help you meet that goal.

2] Prefer NYSE stocks & occasional derivatives myself;
but you are in a liquid contract[CME Globex or Eurex-US].

3]CME, Eurex-US, Esignal has daily data [end of day on your contract] and when I am trading something,
& even before I am trading something, record thier data.

4]True ,its easier writitten than done
;
but if you record enough end of data,& hi-lo, you may see some patterns.

5] And if you see enough patterns, one of these months, may want to plan with a trailing stop to aim for more than a point;
especially since your contract may occasionaly go down 10 points, or go up more than 10 points, before end of day.

Wisdom is the principal thing.

 

[gnome]

The only goals a trader should have:
a. Get better at identifying trade setups.
b. Get better at playing setups.
c. Exercise proper stop discipline.

Anything else is just mental masturbation.

 

[Flashboy]

Quote from gnome:

The only goals a trader should have:
a. Get better at identifying trade setups.
b. Get better at playing setups.
c. Exercise proper stop discipline.

Anything else is just mental masturbation.

Very true..

And I'm trying to get to this point.. but after being a consistent loser for so long its very hard to not cash in when you've set a goal and see that you've met it for the day..

Hopefully I can get to where I just concentrate on proper trading and not $$$

 

[cosmic]

flashboy - I wonder if you have any other rather technical exit condition that could trigger you out & maybe get you more out of a trending situation.

also I think having a clear daily goal is beneficial, but you may bypass limiting yourself with this if you only take the most conservative trades after hitting it early.

my best,
cosmic

 

[gnome]

Quote from Flashboy:

Very true..

And I'm trying to get to this point.. but after being a consistent loser for so long its very hard to not cash in when you've set a goal and see that you've met it for the day..

Hopefully I can get to where I just concentrate on proper trading and not $$$

Even when the market has great potential, it gives traders every opportunity to turn a potential big winner into a small one.

Focusing on the money you've made is one of the Devil's tools.

 

[buylo]

Quote from Flashboy:

I've found that setting a daily goal like I have has limited my earning potential.

My goal for the long term is to average 1pt. out of the Mini Russel each day.

I believe by doing this I'm putting limiting beliefs on my possible performance.. Today for example.. got short at 625.90.. bailed at 624.90.. And the market is clearly telling me it looks weak.

I'm trying to focus on the process of trading itself but am finding it very hard to get that $$$$ target out of my head and trade properly.

Flash,

I, too find it distracting to set monetary daily goals. I try to focus on my signals and what the market is doing (i.e. THE PLAN).

If you have a daily $$$ goal and the market is shite, then why try to make the $$$ goal. If you dont make it for the day, I found that the stress carries over to the next day because you are now trading to make yesterdays $$$ AND todays $$$. It can then steamroll very quickly.

Good trading is not necessarily making money everyday. Good trading is taking the market for all its worth when your plan gives you the signals. Then, also, staying OUT when the market is not tradable and not giving you the opportunity to make $$$.

Best of Luck!

 

[coolweb]

1 point a day huh?

I would be pissing in my pants if I hit 90 cents around (3%) in a $30 stock.

Usually I'd be piss happy for 30 cents (1%) gain a day


I Do know I'm not a great trader though, just an ok one

You guys doing 1 point a day on google?

 

[Flashboy]

Quote from coolweb:

1 point a day huh?

I would be pissing in my pants if I hit 90 cents around (3%) in a $30 stock.

Usually I'd be piss happy for 30 cents (1%) gain a day


I Do know I'm not a great trader though, just an ok one

You guys doing 1 point a day on google?

No.. The Mini Russel Index..

1pt. = $100 per contract

 

[sundance86]

When I started trading the indexes it was the nq in 1999, my trades consisted of trading 5 contracts and exiting with an 8 tick gain or closing with a 4.5 tick loss.

I did ok with this as I could win greater than 50% of the time, but I sure did leave a lot of profits on the table, and I also did some poor trades trying to re-enter that exited winner. Around this time I met a trader who I now work for, a trader who scaled out of trades and who also would add-on to winning trades under certain conditions.

I don't have to tell you how it works, you mentioned similar experiences; if you hold on and try to scale you do it when it was better to exit, but if you go flat you do it when it is better to have held the trade. Have you ever wondered how the market knew exactly what you are doing

What was suggested to me, which is what came to work for me in being able to make this adjustment, was to make the scaling decision on the times where the open trade was also consistent with what should be the greatest strengths of the trading method I was using. So if I was short, and it was also a strong negative day and a day that kept making lower lows, I would scale out of those trades. But if I happened to have taken a buy on that same day, because even though it was a counter trade I still had a trade setup that I was satisfied with taking, I would exit that trade as soon as my profit target was hit.

Maybe some process like this will help you in increasing your trade profits, if you have specific reasons for holding some of the trades that you take.