Uptick exemptions, etc.
http://www.sec.gov/rules/other/34-50104.htm
http://www.sec.gov/rules/other/34-50747.htm
http://www.sec.gov/rules/other/34-50104.htm
http://www.sec.gov/rules/other/34-50747.htm
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Trouble getting filled on nyse stocks
- Thread starter listedguru
- Start date
Quote from Dustin:
The specialist was so cool, and very willing to answer any questions.
I would rather have him be a total a$$hole in person and do his job properly instead screwing day traders all day long. Really, these maggots put on such a facade as the abuses increase by the day.
Recently found it that these parasites have a program on their computer that counts up day trader positions. Somehow it does not surprise me, I have had a strong feeling that they been doing this for the last 4 months.
Quote from Hydroblunt:
I would rather have him be a total a$$hole in person and do his job properly instead screwing day traders all day long. Really, these maggots put on such a facade as the abuses increase by the day.
Recently found it that these parasites have a program on their computer that counts up day trader positions. Somehow it does not surprise me, I have had a strong feeling that they been doing this for the last 4 months.
Show me proof that they have this. It sounds absurd. In this case, this guy could care less about daytraders. All he cared about was filling the larger orders he was resposible for. He gave me his business card if I have any questions about legallity of trades, rules, etc.
I would love to blame these guys for my short comings, but after this trip I only have more respect for them.
Quote from Dustin:
Show me proof that they have this. It sounds absurd. In this case, this guy could care less about daytraders. All he cared about was filling the larger orders he was resposible for. He gave me his business card if I have any questions about legallity of trades, rules, etc.
I would love to blame these guys for my short comings, but after this trip I only have more respect for them.
First of all, which stock was it. If you are talking about a very high volume or thick stock that is overrun by programs, that's one story. Unless there is major news or action, you will see little specialist effect. Second of all, why would any of these maggots ever show you how they manipulate orders & steal? Third of all, why you trust anyone from an old boys club organization that was founded by a bunch of crooks (literally). NYSE is great at keeping up a facade of being this magical "fair & orderly" exchange that everyone just makes out to be a scapegoat. All these stories and anecdotes must all be lies & coincidences right?
All you need to do is read the tape and you will see it all. Better yet, go short or long size a few times in a stock doing 250k-750k because you see the buyer/seller and watch how the specialist runs after your position. You will see everything from pennying, backing away from quotes, insane spreads & manipulated prices to push your panick buttons. Yes the do have a computer through they do see all the SDOT providers and they can easily tell who is a daytrader and who isn't. When the standing orders get a cancel request it flashes red on one of the screens, I'm surprised you did not see it. That's why all the bad orders that are canceled come back and the ones you should actually keep get canceled instantly. As for the counting positions, while I have suspected this for months I did not fully believe it as I thought it was my own frustration & aggravation but it was confirmed by a trader who is by far one of the last people to start making such accusations and has done all the proper research on the NYSE. You can believe me or not, but during the summer it has become a regular daily occurence where I have sat with 2-3 other traders in an uptrending stock with a buyer, watching the specialist refusing to let anyone get out with a semi-decent profit and doing everything he can to screw out a certain amount of shares from us. It makes sense, thin market, only so much stock around and only so much time left for the specialist system. Private schools & Gucci bags for the kids aren't cheap, you know.
Over the past 5 months I have experienced a growing increase in the abuses. Everything from pennying, to refusing filling properly placed orders more than in time to get filled, to being printed through on orders placed 2-5 minutes ahead of the print, backing away & obvious manipulated price swings that do an excellent job of breaking the average day trader risk threshhold. The best was when a certain Latin ADR kept taunting my short position by constantly pulling away the offer as soon as I try to cover and then flashing me the same exact # of shares I had short 10 cents higher. He somehow got to know me after I made a bundle on him days in a row cause I saw the huge slow seller and apparently it is too insulting for him to see some guy behind a computer trading that seller without any floor order flow info.
What I experienced this month is making me wonder if these bastards are even human. I'm just a humble trader trying to squeeze out 70k+ a year from this market while they are in a very privieleged position of making an easy 1M-2M a year. Why must day traders become targets under their insane power? Any trader would kill for their job that allows some of the easiest & biggest risk free money to be made, while they can't last even a couple months trying to do what we do. I just don't get why they get so greedy & vindictive sometimes, it's not our fault the market is tough & getting tougher. I've been trading more and more Nasdaq with some success and I fully acknowledge Nascrack's own problems & risks. I turned into a profitable trader as a pure NYSE tape reader so I'm making the transition slowly fully ready to take some bad losses and be outtraded by big traders & computers. At least I can learn from the mistakes and adjust. I don't learn anything and cannot adjust when I go to take my profit just see my standing limit pennied, the NX being turned off, the following crossed limit ignored, then sending a market order in despair and assuming the bent over position.
Pardon the tirade response, I know you're a top system trader but I don't know whether you see it from my perspective which many other NYSE traders hold. BTW, as a side story, there is a good system trader in my room who recently had the pleasure of experiencing my Latin ADR specialist "buddy". He made the mistake of putting a stop loss order, boy did he pay for that one. Quite a lesson.
Quote from psytrade:
Don, can you please post the original pdf file of those stocks exempt from the uptick rule, the SEC.gov link is bad.
Thanks,
Eric
Try this one..
www.nasdaqtrader.com/aspx/regsho.aspx
And this:
www.nyse.com/regshopilot
Don
Pardon the tirade response, I know you're a top system trader but I don't know whether you see it from my perspective which many other NYSE traders hold. BTW, as a side story, there is a good system trader in my room who recently had the pleasure of experiencing my Latin ADR specialist "buddy". He made the mistake of putting a stop loss order, boy did he pay for that one. Quite a lesson.
I'm sure it depends on the specialist, and by no means do I think these guys are angels. I was at post 1-J which had pretty thin stocks. His most active was HC which does 800k/day. I still don't understand how they can tell if it's a daytrader. When I send orders through Laser I can use MLCO, BELZ, or OES. That's the only ID he can see from me that I am aware of. BTW I trade 300+ NY stocks each month so I am in a good position to know if I'm being screwed with. There are situations every day that I feel are unfair, but no more now then 4 years ago in my experience. My wife can hear me from across the house every day yelling "damn crook!".
Quote from Dustin:
I'm sure it depends on the specialist, and by no means do I think these guys are angels. I was at post 1-J which had pretty thin stocks. His most active was HC which does 800k/day. I still don't understand how they can tell if it's a daytrader. When I send orders through Laser I can use MLCO, BELZ, or OES. That's the only ID he can see from me that I am aware of. BTW I trade 300+ NY stocks each month so I am in a good position to know if I'm being screwed with. There are situations every day that I feel are unfair, but no more now then 4 years ago in my experience. My wife can hear me from across the house every day yelling "damn crook!".
HC is decent, it trades thick and has a lot of computer trading done through the NYOB. These types of listed, and I trade them often, seem to be executed mostly electronically. I go to these stocks when I need to cut my "specialist risk".
As for "daytrader" label I know for a fact that it depends on the SDOT provider and seeing the clearing firm. I have yet to find out exactly how much info they get for every order but I have received advice several times to have different SDOTs because it does alleviate the abuses. I'm sure these guys can figure out who is who by the order placement & clearing firm.
The main difference to me between now and lets say 2 years ago is that the abuses were worth the reward. It's not even close anymore, sometimes the biggest moves are the daytraders being chopped around by the specialist meaning that only he & his friends get those special prints on the right side. I'm fine with getting screwed 10-20 cents here & there and paying the fee when I can make this money back due to the action the specialist brings to the stock but lately it seems almost impossible to even fight back if you get hurt a few times in the morning. They just don't want to give you a chance, the risk/reward is just so skewed.
A good example of a specialist that seems like a complete a$$hole but is actually doing a great job is HAR, in my opinion. You can get screwed for 50 cents to a point easily but the price action this guy bring to the stock on active days is way worth the screws. I just wish more of them took that route instead of resorting to chopping daytraders all day long, as if there aren't enough mooks & programs doing the same.