It's not that I mind the dollar amount so much b/c I don't. It is that they penny me, you, every trade all day long. And the SEC fine is so ridiculously low that it is better business for NITE to cheat than do it right. I just don't understand cheaters, swindlers, crooks, thieves... whatever.
TriMark/NITE cheats me again!
- Thread starter inandlong
- Start date
Guninthewater
Guest
How did they cheat you?
I enter trades intraday at limit prices, usually 2 cents above the ask on a buy. This is not for a daytrade, so not buying at the bid isn't important to me. The market is .27x.28 and I want 4K shares of 8600 offered. Order goes in for .30 on 4K limit. Market prints .27's and .28's below me, of which I get 1300 at .29 and 2700 at .30. I was the only print at .30 and .29. The b/a never went there. I called. They adjusted all to .29.
Again, it isn't the cash. It is the principle. I trade thru Ameritrade which routes the orders thru Nite. The commish is cheaper and they have other services I like that preclude using IB for an order like this. So the real question is, would the fill at IB offset the higher commish given the same order?
It just bums me out somewhat that there seems to be such a lack of integrity throughout business.
Again, it isn't the cash. It is the principle. I trade thru Ameritrade which routes the orders thru Nite. The commish is cheaper and they have other services I like that preclude using IB for an order like this. So the real question is, would the fill at IB offset the higher commish given the same order?
It just bums me out somewhat that there seems to be such a lack of integrity throughout business.
They screwed me last week on a stop order. I had a sell stop market at .27, bid drops to .26 which should have triggered the stop, but nothing prints for a full 60 seconds, when someone else's 1300 shares go through at .26. A full 2 minutes and 25 seconds after the stop triggers, I finally get filled at .15. I emailed and they fixed it, but I'm guessing Joe Investor who probably makes up the bulk of their clients doesn't catch it, so they get away with it enough to make it profitable, although this is only the second time I've had to bitch about a fill in probably 8 or 10 months and they've fixed it both times. I trade with Freetrade, which is just basically Ameritrade with lower commissions.
This is a perfect example of order execution being worth more than cheap commissions. I have compared executions between my supposed "full service" broker and IB. Full service broker goes through TriMark. I direct the IB order to NYSE.
I've found that IB is normally better due to a fairer execution. In my opinion this is due to using the primary exchange rather than letting the broker ship to whereever in order to capture order flow revenue. The worst case is I pay a slightly higher commission on a large order. For example, on 3k shares I would pay IB $17.50 commission. This is $5 to $10 more than many brokers charge. So if on a large order the full service broker executes at the same price, I'm better off by a few bucks. But if I loose 1 cent on average due to no price improvement, now I'm $20+ behind. Could the execution be even 2 or 3 cents worse? Try as much as 5 cents worse in my experience!
I would love to see a study funded on execution performance between brokers. It would be very easy to do. Just some market and limit orders, say 100 to 500 shares on a liquid stock, transmitted simultaneously to different brokers. I think the results would be very revealing about how expensive cheap commissions can be.
I've found that IB is normally better due to a fairer execution. In my opinion this is due to using the primary exchange rather than letting the broker ship to whereever in order to capture order flow revenue. The worst case is I pay a slightly higher commission on a large order. For example, on 3k shares I would pay IB $17.50 commission. This is $5 to $10 more than many brokers charge. So if on a large order the full service broker executes at the same price, I'm better off by a few bucks. But if I loose 1 cent on average due to no price improvement, now I'm $20+ behind. Could the execution be even 2 or 3 cents worse? Try as much as 5 cents worse in my experience!
I would love to see a study funded on execution performance between brokers. It would be very easy to do. Just some market and limit orders, say 100 to 500 shares on a liquid stock, transmitted simultaneously to different brokers. I think the results would be very revealing about how expensive cheap commissions can be.
Many times the B/D is not responsible and unaware of these incidents until a customer informs them. I have filed such grievances as a trader and handled them when working on an wildly busy order desk.
You seem to have all of the data, therefore, reporting it to the firm's compliance officer is worth the effort. The normal course of action is, the 24 will bring it to the trading desk and then it's filed with Nasdaq after you have completed a short form. These complaints are usually resolved within 24 hours. The B/D doesn't want to lose your business, the contra doesn't want any hassles and if the complaint has substance they will resolve it. If the contra doesen't agree, then Nasdaq will make the decision. I recommend diverting your energy to getting the problem resolved.
Good luck!
You seem to have all of the data, therefore, reporting it to the firm's compliance officer is worth the effort. The normal course of action is, the 24 will bring it to the trading desk and then it's filed with Nasdaq after you have completed a short form. These complaints are usually resolved within 24 hours. The B/D doesn't want to lose your business, the contra doesn't want any hassles and if the complaint has substance they will resolve it. If the contra doesen't agree, then Nasdaq will make the decision. I recommend diverting your energy to getting the problem resolved.
Good luck!