Treyvon Martin issue is starting to irritate the hell out of me

377OHMS · Mar 25, 2012

Quote from gwb-trading:

So you believe that Zimmerman should flee the country rather than face the justice system. This does not demonstrate much support for believing he is not guilty of criminal actions in this shooting.

There is a long history of criminals who flee justice overseas; everyone from financial scam artists, to pedophiles, to murderers.

Here is a hint, Zimmerman better flee to a place with no extradition treaty if he does not want to be flown back and face court (if the grand jury indicts him).

He isn't facing anything. He has no travel restrictions. Given that a lynch mod is forming it is safe for him to assume that he will receive no justice and he should flee immedietely.

gwb-trading · Mar 25, 2012

Quote from 377OHMS:

With all respect towards your normally rational postings you are embelishing with extreme bias. That is simply not the events stated by the eyewitness and by Zimmerman and the police believed what they were told. Are you a better investigator than the Sanford police?

Can you outline the events as you believe them to be based on the 911 calls, media accounts including witness, tape from Martin's lawyer speaking about the cell phone call then. This is my best explanation based on all of this information.

This is a good time for you to list out your 'facts' in the same way that a lawyer would for court then. I would ask that you listen to all of the 911 calls first, the tape from Martin's lawyer of the girlfriends account, and read the account of the 911 caller #4 (who you called the 'secret witness') that appeared in local papers (in no place did this eyewitness ever say he saw who started the confrontation).

pspr · Mar 25, 2012

Quote from gwb-trading:

Now let's look at the FACTS of this case in the way a legal counsel would list them out

LOL Not exactly.

1) Based on the location of the shooting, Zimmerman's explanation that he was walking back to his SUV appears to be not true.

You made this up. Show me where the evidence for this statement is.

2) There was a verbal confrontation before the physical confrontation (based on the information from Martin's girlfriend who was on a cell phone call with him).

For arguments sake let's assume Zimmerman asked him what he is doing here. What's the 911 tape show?

3) It is not clear who started the physical confrontation. No independent eyewitnesses or physical evidence demonstrate which party started the physical confrontation.

The only witness is Zimmerman. If he says he didn't start it you have to believe him unless you have PROOF or a WITNESS that he didn't. You have to have proof for this point or there is no case that this was murder of any type.

4) Martin gained the upper hand in the physical confrontation and was on top of Zimmerman hitting him (eyewitness from 911 call #4 of 8). The physical injuries to Zimmerman also appear to confirm that this is true.

5) Zimmerman was the person heard screaming in the 911 calls. Several independent people have confirmed the voice as Zimmerman's and not as Martin's at this point.

6) Zimmerman shot Martin

7) Martin is dead of a bullet wound.

8) Zimmerman is not charged as the facts available indicate he acted in SELF-DEFENSE. Unless you can find a witness saying he saw Zimmerman throw the first punch - End of story.

gwb-trading · Mar 25, 2012

Quote from 377OHMS:

He isn't facing anything. He has no travel restrictions. Given that a lynch mod is forming it is safe for him to assume that he will receive no justice and he should flee immedietely.

He can join the long list of child molesters, financial scam artists, rapists, and murderers living overseas.

gwb-trading · Mar 25, 2012

Quote from pspr:

The only witness is Zimmerman. If he says he didn't start it you have to believe him unless you have PROOF or a WITNESS that he didn't. You have to have proof for this point or there is no case that this was murder of any type.

8) Zimmerman is not charged as the facts available indicate he acted in SELF-DEFENSE. End of story.

So the moral of the story is that as long as I kill everyone that saw me murder someone including the initial victim, then my explanation of events automatically stands with police and will never be questioned. Sounds like a license to gun down whoever I want. BTW this is why criminal law teaches the need for independent witnesses for criminal cases and car accident reports. Take a car accident, each party involved in the accident normally gives an explanation that the other party is at fault and they are guiltless in the collision.

In regards to 8, the police investigation is not complete. The local police and DA have admitted to totally blotching the investigation and have been removed. Now competent authorities are driving the investigation, the results will be placed in front of a grand jury. The grand jury is the first step in detemining if he acted in self-defense. End of story. You already confirmed that you do not want this case to follow the usual legal process under the law - but you are jumping the gun in attempting to state "Zimmerman is not charged".

377OHMS · Mar 25, 2012

Quote from gwb-trading:

He can join the long list of child molesters, financial scam artists, rapists, and murderers living overseas.

He isn't charged with anything so he would not be a fugitive.

The Black Panthers offered a bounty today for the "capture" of Zimmerman. He has every reason to take off.

New documents can be obtained in Los Angeles at Alvarado and 8th St. If he speaks spanish then Spain would be an obvious choice but South America might be even better. Start a new life and let America wallow in its racist self-hatred. I would never let myself become a pawn in a ideological battle between political factions. He should disappear. He might even be able to become a cop in Chile or Argentina.

achilles28 · Mar 25, 2012

Quote from gwb-trading:

There is no evidence that Martin pursued Zimmerman and attacked. The only evidence is that Martin gained the upper hand after a physical confrontation started and landed up on top of Zimmerman.

Certainly if someone attacked you and you landed up on top of them after they assaulted you then you have the right to punch them & hold them down until they stop attempting to assault you - even if they are screaming for help like a little girl (which I would view as an attempt by the assaulter to have more people attack me).

Now let's look at the FACTS of this case in the way a legal counsel would list them out.

1) Based on the location of the shooting, Zimmerman's explanation that he was walking back to his SUV appears to be not true.

2) There was a verbal confrontation before the physical confrontation (based on the information from Martin's girlfriend who was on a cell phone call with him).

3) It is not clear who started the physical confrontation. No independent eyewitnesses or physical evidence demonstrate which party started the physical confrontation.

4) Martin gained the upper hand in the physical confrontation and was on top of Zimmerman hitting him (eyewitness from 911 call #4 of 8). The physical injuries to Zimmerman also appear to confirm that this is true.

5) Zimmerman was the person heard screaming in the 911 calls. Several independent people have confirmed the voice as Zimmerman's and not as Martin's at this point.

6) Zimmerman shot Martin

7) Martin is dead of a bullet wound.

Unless an eye witness to the physical altercation comes forward, it's impossible to know what happened. It's possible Zimmerman initiated and Martin acted in self-defense. It's possible, Martin attacked first and was killed, because of it. Aficat, nobody knows.

Here's a question: Why does the media obsess over one bi-racial murder (crying racism) but ignore the hundreds of black-on-black murders that are commonplace, every month?

pspr · Mar 25, 2012

Quote from gwb-trading:

So the moral of the story is that as long as I kill everyone that saw me murder someone including the initial victim, then my explanation of events automatically stands with police and will never be questioned. Sounds like a license to gun down whoever I want. BTW this is why criminal law teaches the need for independent witnesses for criminal cases and car accident reports. Take a car accident, each party involved in the accident normally gives an explanation that the other party is at fault and they are guiltless in the collision.

In regards to 8, the police investigation is not complete. The local police and DA have admitted to totally blotching the investigation and have been removed. Now competent authorities are driving the investigation, the results will be placed in front of a grand jury. The grand jury is the first step in detemining if he acted in self-defense. End of story. You already confirmed that you do not want this case to follow the usual legal process under the law - but you are jumping the gun in attempting to state "Zimmerman is not charged".

That's pretty much right. If the evidence does not prove your story is false but corroborates what you say, your story is believed to be true unless sufficient other FACTS can be found that don't support it.

You have to have proof before you can charge and try someone of a crime - especially a serious crime such as murder. Or you have to have a compelling circumstantial case like with Casey Anthony. Still, that didn't work out for the prosecution.

The police chief was not removed. He stepped aside temporarily to quell the likes of Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton from turning the event into a riot.

If there is more investigation of the scene and interviewing witnesses, that's fine. If they can find more witnesses, good. And, if they do and the facts change, then so be it. But, if the prosecutor's office can't find sufficient evidence to support a crime then I doubt a grand jury looking at the same facts will come to a different conclusion. It would just be a waste of taxpayer money.

377OHMS · Mar 25, 2012

Quote from achilles28:

Unless an eye witness to the physical altercation comes forward, it's impossible to know what happened. It's possible Zimmerman initiated and Martin acted in self-defense. It's possible, Martin attacked first and was killed, because of it. Aficat, nobody knows.

Here's a question: Why does the media obsess over one bi-racial murder (crying racism) but ignore the hundreds of black-on-black murders that are commonplace, every month?

The eyewitness and Zimmerman both told police that Martin attacked Zimmerman who was walking towards his truck which is why he was released.

Do you think the cops would release Zimmerman if they thought he started a fight with Martin and then shot Martin?

achilles28 · Mar 25, 2012

Quote from 377OHMS:

The eyewitness and Zimmerman both told police that Martin attacked Zimmerman who was walking towards his truck which is why he was released.

Do you think the cops would release Zimmerman if they thought he started a fight with Martin and then shot Martin?

Who was the eyewitness? I thought Zimmerman was the only witness, and his injuries and the 911 call corroborated, so they let him go.