Trend Following-Trend Commandments

Quote from Rodney King:

What's with the personal attacks and hostility? Get out bed on the wrong side? First you attack Covel, a <i>sponsor</i>, for promoting his wares (duh, that's what sponsors <i>do</i>), then you attack me for pointing it out...

Excuse me?

First, I applauded Covel's skills as a writer and author. I never attacked Covel for promoting his "wares". One doesn't become a sponsor of this site to donate funds to the owners of Elite Trader. I am though, allowed to criticize his being rude, crass and classless toward people in this forum for just asking him questions. Especially when he refuses to answer them solely because he feels it is beneath him. Being a sponsor doesn't give him "carte blanche" to be a jerk.

Second, responding to your comment, "It says "ET Sponsor" by his name. What part of "sponsor" is unclear?, isn't a personal attack, it is called a defensive comment directed toward an uncalled for condescending (Showing or implying a usually patronizing descent from dignity or superiority) remark.

Third, I had an excellent weekend and a marvelous night's sleep, thank you for asking.

It's becoming quite clear you enjoy picking fights with the posters on this site. Obviously you aren't the type to bully people in the real world so taking on invisible people is more your speed.

I'll will say upfront that you are welcome to put me on ignore since I will now do it to you. I prefer having conversations with mature grownups that don't feel the need to aggressively push their limited personalities down other people's throats.

Good day to you Mr. King.
 
Quote from bwolinsky:

Looks good. Started in 1974, their site shows a compounded 18% since then. Excellent.
<i>
Trading Strategies
DUNN’s WMA program utilizes a long-term trend-following strategy. This is a full reversal strategy in which the program is almost always invested, either long or short, in each market it trades. The WMA program seeks to extract profits from up and down trends, resulting in a stream that exhibits a low correlation with traditional asset classes. WMA’s average holding period is approximately 6 months.
Revolution’s Mosaic program (exclusively licensed and distributed by DUNN) utilizes a short-term pattern recognition strategy. Mosaic is an ensemble of trading models that seek to identify higher order patterns via statistical analysis and exploit these patterns with trading algorithms. Mosaic’s average holding period is approximately 4 days.
</i>

The WMA is a bit volatile and not my first choice of indicators, but that was really all there was back then. The WMA's average holding period is too long to assign any significance to their trades. Any more than a month and no matter your rationale was for entering probably had nothing to do with anything that happens that much later. This probably produced outsized returns since inception, but I know the WMA holding period of 6 months is too long to be considered credible. Much more research than technical trading seems to go into that.

Their mosaic program I believe are more realistic and probably account for the majority of their profits. I don't know if your performance statistics are true, but I have no reason to question them.

Their indicators holding out 6 months is a red flag, and anybody watching continuous commodity futures since that time is just going to see a big up swing for most of the reporting period. Although I have periods in my strategies holding for multiple years, I know that as long as you're with the trend you should hold onto it until it reverses. That sounds like what they're doing here.

The short term pattern recognition most likely doesn't know why their methodologies work. Statistically a lot of spurious correlations can be created even if there is only a slight outperformance.

A 50% drawdown is reasonable, but this probably does put them in the high risk category.

What this means to me is that if I can produce returns at the historical average of 150-180% annually there is no problem attracting a lot of money to my trading practices. I have less data than them, but most likely the in-house development of the WMA identified bottoms more than likely, actually, and these were used as the basis for taking leveraged positions in lognormal futures contracts.

Dunn would be an interesting to company to read about for sure, but I have to say nearly all of their strategies from the 1974 period could probably only handle daily, weekly or monthly data. It doesn't look like if their holding period is 6 months that that classifies as trend following. More than likely the research team researches the best commodity plays, and virtually any program will give signals when taken over a long period of time that might buy on a dip or short a high. Doing so is not actually that simple, but the programs sound like they have built enough track record so that no one questions the soundness of their strategies.

Nice assessment.

I like Dunn and think they represent a class operation that bases their investments on sound, solid, tried and tested old school methods, from what I can see. If I didn't like controlling my own investments I might be tempted in allowing them to manage a portion of my assets.
 
Quote from Rodney King:

What's with the personal attacks and hostility? Get out bed on the wrong side? First you attack Covel, a <i>sponsor</i>, for promoting his wares (duh, that's what sponsors <i>do</i>), then you attack me for pointing it out...
Colyn's comment showed his disappointment when he realised that Covel's intention is just to promote and sell his books, and he doesn't provide here useful information. He probably intended to also to warn the others who expected more from this thread.
 
Quote from baro-san:

Colyn's comment showed his disappointment when he realised that Covel's intention is just to promote and sell his books, and he doesn't provide here useful information.

OK, fair enough. Obviously Covel wants to sell the cow, not give away the milk...
 
Quote from Rodney King:

It says "ET Sponsor" by his name. What part of "sponsor" is unclear?
every othe post is overkill,an info mercial is a 30 minute ad, a tv show is 20 minute show 10 minutes of ads, this is so overdone,it's not about trend following and et traders contributions, this is et ,not covel,if he wants to blend in with commentary,fine,but hijack the thread with a video of him doing jumping jacks saying look at me every other post is a little short of class,personal demeanor....
 
Quote from bwolinsky:

More than likely the research team researches the best commodity plays, and virtually any program will give signals when taken over a long period of time that might buy on a dip or short a high. Doing so is not actually that simple, but the programs sound like they have built enough track record so that no one questions the soundness of their strategies.

No cigar, but very imaginative. Dunn does not do this.

BTW, what does "researches the best commodity plays" actually mean? That is drivel squishy talk, not trend following.

For those who might want to know more about Dunn he is featured in Trend Following.
 
Quote from Trend Following:

BTW, what does "researches the best commodity plays" actually mean?

You only get to ask questions when you answer the ones asked of you first. :-)

You didn't really ask what "researching the best commodity plays" means did you?

When is your next seminar here in the US?
 
"researching the best commodity plays" ...reeks of fundamental analysis. Not what Dunn Capital does.
 
Quote from Trend Following:

"researching the best commodity plays" ...reeks of fundamental analysis. Not what Dunn Capital does.

The question wasn't in reference to Dunn, it was a stand alone question.

Research isn't limited to fundamental analysis, research is done daily throughout the world in technical analysis and even in trend analysis.
 
Trend following traders are not changing their systems daily.
 
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