thanks very much for the markings regarding omitted annotations. The code for all the pennants,stitches and other indicators was removed from this image for display.
Trend Following dying?
- Thread starter JezLiberty
- Start date
thanks very much for the markings regarding omitted annotations. The code for all the pennants,stitches and other indicators was removed from this image for display.
Quote from jack hershey:
I snipped this illustration down to point out the signals (oval) on the chart.
I also point out where annotation on price (angular) have been ommitted.
By drawing up from volume the signals, you can see that sitting there on price is the corresponding action point.
Thank you for your first post under your new alias.
I'm sure LO's kids are smart as is he himself. He and your firm follow the same inductive methods. And we see his results of his research.
As the years go by both of you may shift in your orientation to more and more scientific research.
It is well known that there are many many wys to profit handsomely from the markets. Edges are not a class that is included in the high velocity money making that is possible from the market's continuing offer.
Your firm has staff that make market calls and act upon them. It sounds fairly conventional. I'm sure you back that up with all kinds of protection.
If you are familiar with T666 back testing, I can provide the Universe to you and the way it is used where the trading signals are prescribed by using volume. That has been available since 1957. Each Sunday the trades for the week are noted and as the week progress, the volume signals are used to time the trades.
For SCT trading, the trades are taken from the FTT signals that appear during the day. Is it that you want me to read the chart to you as the day goes by? Should I make the call a few minutes before each trade occurs as the day goes by? Or, as I have done previously, do you just want the next 15 or 20 trades spelled out before the day begins?
Why would you conclude that there is only one way to trade and that I think it is one of the four approaches I use.? It there one in particular you have in mind?
I would not think it is possible to prove anything to you, LO or a firm like yours. I have an orientation that is unfamiliar to you. Any means of evaluation you choose, would not have results that fit into the range of results you deem possible.
when I have had our orientation tested using thrid party data, there has never been an acceptance of the results on the first pass of their data. Universally, the result of evaluation has been that the test did not work right and something failed in the testing. these people, like you, did the expected. They repeated their testing over and over on the same data and got the same wrong answer. Using the repeated same wrong answer they got several times they sat down to figure out why their testing kept giving the same wrong answer.
They did conclude that something was going on that they did not understand. You have gotten that far already.
Lets look at the part of your firm's scale you are reading. It is labelled delusional. when you get results from your testing that are on the delusional part of the scale you have no contract to profer for that case. That is because it is not in the realm of your business possibilities or model.
If your firm cannot understand what is going on how could you use or operate it? You can't. You have to use the type or results LO, et al gets and be happy with that.
It is like oil and water do not mix. inductuction and making calls from them do not mix with using deductive logic and not having to make calls. you have a scale of what is possible. Beyond that part of the scale is what you term delusional. That is where the science and logic based scale is found. You have beliefs that you are correct.
Check out why you do not contract with John, Tim or Tom. They DO NOT DO YOUR TYPE OF CONTRACTS. THEY, IN FACT, ARE YOUR COMPETITORS.
There is nothing you can prove to them or anyone like them that would make a deal possible with you. If you are doing deals with people who hve to prove something to you, you are just on the wrong side of the contracting, i.e., you are missing the boat. No one needs you or your firm because they know something you cannot understand.
You are searching for edges and people are just laughing at you.
I did look at your constant volume bars and its maths derivatives. For me constant volume bar charts fit in the market profile category. you maths fits into a logic orientation for me. Sorry about my mistakes.
Quote from romanus:
thanks for the Q.
I was just trying to point out, as you do, that there is a window beginning and ending that worrks for carving turns.
I was hoping that people could see that, as time passes, a trader has plenty of time to take the reversal.
In your circled example for that long to short, there is another long to short a few bars later after the first short fails to complete its pattern. At the time of this failure the is a reversal short to long and the trader is prepping for the second long to short.
I am trying to work through the proposition that a trader builds his mind so that his long term memory provides appropriate inference at all times. I advocate that the mind combines sensory input with long term memory in a fixed common ratio of 10% sensory and 90% inference to equal 100% called perception.
You raise how consistency works in trading. For me it comes about when a mind has become fully differentiated.
Obviously, there are different ways that the mind can become differentiated. Over this whole range most traders become failures through learning repeated failure.
I circled the annotated events that were "readable" through the quality of annotation. I did not draw in a lot of the ways in which a person's syes would move through the sequence of doing trades by carving through the turns.
As you see there is a whole range of what I call "reactions" of people here. I did blow off a little time responding to some humor. Someone was asking me to prove I am in the delusional range of his perfomance scale and he even thinks I am making "calls". I don't do calls, I just obey the market's instructions for taking the market's offer.
Thanks for amplifying on the key aspects of FTT's and the turns.
I think you are running a little ahead of MR Black in your sensitivity and skills.
Wehn you are annotating on the sub, BBT and Tape level these days and using YM as a leading indicator you have it made.
Now look at your order of trades and just what you do to deal with two sexy issues.
1. patterns not completing, and
2. pace change in markets.
3. Acceleration of the trend.
This is being 90% complete in the Giant slalom training.
There is nothing wrong with the trend trading that has been posted. It is kinda cool and very fruitful.
Lets say a person recognizes that the market testing of R is over for the day and he does a few short trades one after the other to pick up the marbles in the ring. You are trading with him at the same location say.
you have the internals on your screen he does not. you hgave Pepe's DOM running he does not. you are running the S/S and he isn't.
Get the R/S line indicator on your platform and set it medium and green as the defaults.
To fix 1, above you simply, from now on keep track of patterns not completing.
Rght now you clearly pick off dominance shifts like an alley cat on the prowl; nothing get past you on that.Use this skill to to pick off a trade whose pattern can't complete because the shift in dominance is going to bury it on the second move of the pattern.
take that horizontal only R/S indicator line and run it from the FTT to the right so you can see the second move coming to knock out the first move right after the dominance you SEE shifts.
You see that the old ftt is replaced by the new one right after the green line hits the bar. (The old wash trade practice drill, I'm sure you remember)
Mr black is relaxed on an over all "R failure" tape short for the afternoon. He let the new ftt hit and he saw that the price rolled on down to his LTL and he took the profits.
You are different since you can detect dominance shifts pronto and skillfully. You drill down immediately to the sub or sub sub level to pick off the moves that were creating the new dominance. You are intrabar on ES and bar by bar and intrabar on YM and always using volume as a leading indicator.
Use a MADA "reading " sequence on the S/S, OTR and DOM. You known the limiting full range all the time by looking at the DOM walls. For good swings, Check to see if the pepe wall is really significant or jus the widest that would be recorded. As price moves check to see if further ahead wallsare the real potential walls.
The other half of slow patterns not completing is more associated with the "fanning" that goes on with respect to eithr tape or BBT RTL's. Internal cases are always part of that. Some of the posters pull the internals to keep charts less "bizarre" to people new to SCT trading. I like the new bizarre orintation prsonally; do they have a smiley for bizarre as yet. I changed the spelling to the conventional to help them out a little.
After a point 3 on a trend we go into the final and third move. When the market pace shifts down a notch, it is easliy possible that the domanance of the third move is less robust. This leads to internals and there you find on faster fractals some observable sub moves flattening out things. An RTL can simply intercept the third sluggish move occasionally. So we fan the RTL to a lesser slope and let the third move have another chance and completion via observing the three moves on the next faster fractal.
As you do the MADA more and more effectively, you work into the mode of "putting the pieces together", meaning you work in a multi fractal manner and keep your trading fractal surrounded.
Look at Mr Black's annotations, he doesn't have the faster fractals all fully annotated but he does note the last thing we do though: Volatility Expansion. It happens after point 3 and is in place of the normal FTT of a standard trend's three moves.
we accelerate the RTL as much as possible when VE occurs. this speeds up getting and ftt IN the accelerated container. we want to know the time when the dominace shifts as soon as possible. Steepening the RTL is able to support that.
S oyuo have reached a neat fork in the road: "putting the pieces together". One way to delay this great step is to do inventing. Another way is to look for shortcuts to save necessary work. Shortcuts in differentiating the mind turn out to be long cuts.
A very terrific and proven way to put the pices together is to support the learning of others by helping them through the wickets you have already executed. Another thing that is helpful is logging six to eight lines for each 5 minute bar. the consequence is that you automatically reach to clicj each reverseal almost automatically.
Look closely as MR black neals each entry and is sooo relaxed going to his exits. What would happen if each exit was a reversaland he held into his next entry. WOW!!!!.
Wehn you are annotating on the sub, BBT and Tape level these days and using YM as a leading indicator you have it made.
Now look at your order of trades and just what you do to deal with two sexy issues.
1. patterns not completing, and
2. pace change in markets.
3. Acceleration of the trend.
This is being 90% complete in the Giant slalom training.
There is nothing wrong with the trend trading that has been posted. It is kinda cool and very fruitful.
Lets say a person recognizes that the market testing of R is over for the day and he does a few short trades one after the other to pick up the marbles in the ring. You are trading with him at the same location say.
you have the internals on your screen he does not. you hgave Pepe's DOM running he does not. you are running the S/S and he isn't.
Get the R/S line indicator on your platform and set it medium and green as the defaults.
To fix 1, above you simply, from now on keep track of patterns not completing.
Rght now you clearly pick off dominance shifts like an alley cat on the prowl; nothing get past you on that.Use this skill to to pick off a trade whose pattern can't complete because the shift in dominance is going to bury it on the second move of the pattern.
take that horizontal only R/S indicator line and run it from the FTT to the right so you can see the second move coming to knock out the first move right after the dominance you SEE shifts.
You see that the old ftt is replaced by the new one right after the green line hits the bar. (The old wash trade practice drill, I'm sure you remember)
Mr black is relaxed on an over all "R failure" tape short for the afternoon. He let the new ftt hit and he saw that the price rolled on down to his LTL and he took the profits.
You are different since you can detect dominance shifts pronto and skillfully. You drill down immediately to the sub or sub sub level to pick off the moves that were creating the new dominance. You are intrabar on ES and bar by bar and intrabar on YM and always using volume as a leading indicator.
Use a MADA "reading " sequence on the S/S, OTR and DOM. You known the limiting full range all the time by looking at the DOM walls. For good swings, Check to see if the pepe wall is really significant or jus the widest that would be recorded. As price moves check to see if further ahead wallsare the real potential walls.
The other half of slow patterns not completing is more associated with the "fanning" that goes on with respect to eithr tape or BBT RTL's. Internal cases are always part of that. Some of the posters pull the internals to keep charts less "bizarre" to people new to SCT trading. I like the new bizarre orintation prsonally; do they have a smiley for bizarre as yet. I changed the spelling to the conventional to help them out a little.
After a point 3 on a trend we go into the final and third move. When the market pace shifts down a notch, it is easliy possible that the domanance of the third move is less robust. This leads to internals and there you find on faster fractals some observable sub moves flattening out things. An RTL can simply intercept the third sluggish move occasionally. So we fan the RTL to a lesser slope and let the third move have another chance and completion via observing the three moves on the next faster fractal.
As you do the MADA more and more effectively, you work into the mode of "putting the pieces together", meaning you work in a multi fractal manner and keep your trading fractal surrounded.
Look at Mr Black's annotations, he doesn't have the faster fractals all fully annotated but he does note the last thing we do though: Volatility Expansion. It happens after point 3 and is in place of the normal FTT of a standard trend's three moves.
we accelerate the RTL as much as possible when VE occurs. this speeds up getting and ftt IN the accelerated container. we want to know the time when the dominace shifts as soon as possible. Steepening the RTL is able to support that.
S oyuo have reached a neat fork in the road: "putting the pieces together". One way to delay this great step is to do inventing. Another way is to look for shortcuts to save necessary work. Shortcuts in differentiating the mind turn out to be long cuts.
A very terrific and proven way to put the pices together is to support the learning of others by helping them through the wickets you have already executed. Another thing that is helpful is logging six to eight lines for each 5 minute bar. the consequence is that you automatically reach to clicj each reverseal almost automatically.
Look closely as MR black neals each entry and is sooo relaxed going to his exits. What would happen if each exit was a reversaland he held into his next entry. WOW!!!!.
As Profile Logic and Jack Hershey refuse to post results or make public calls based on their chart art---
I request any succesful user of these chart art methods, systems or tactics to post their success.
Convolusion and circular rhetoric never created profits for anyone. In fact, often the most simple systems are the most profitable
Thank you
I request any succesful user of these chart art methods, systems or tactics to post their success.
Convolusion and circular rhetoric never created profits for anyone. In fact, often the most simple systems are the most profitable
Thank you
Sorry, Jack, I removed my original post because I couldn't be sure whether or not Mr. Black's trades were to cover the previous entries or reversals. Here it is:
My original question was if he is using the stop set at infinity because it looked to me like after some of the executions the price went in an opposite direction on increasing volume.
I have added some bizarre back to the chart snippet if it helps.
Apologize to you for what. You are a typical hack that talks out of two sides of mouth at once. Now you are just another multiple alias jerk. You got banned from this site twice for your lies. Trying for 3? You make snide personal remarks about people then when they strike back, you whine like the bitch you are.
I have no problem defending what I do. I've offered to prove to you in person what I do but your hack mentality wants to make a side show out of it each time. You keep coming back that somehow I'm going to "magically" make profit like a magician from the charts. You truly are an ignorant ass. A chart is on the screen, I call a trade (win or lose) . . . shit isn't hard but you think it can be fixed . . . you need professional help.
I've even posted trades but you conveniently forget those as well.
If you think what I do and the charts I post is anything even close to Market Profile you are a bigger idiot than anyone of ever imagined. Not only are you a worthless hack but blind as well.
Have a nice walk with the "boss" in the park. You won't have to worry about getting mugged, they have pity on the mentally disabled.