trend following delusion shattered

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Quote from ProfLogic:

No, it is strickly the reading of trends.

Hank, you really don't understand. Your opinion doesn't matter. Nickel's opinion doesn't matter. And for that matter my opinion doesn't matter. But facts speak for themselves. You are a statistician and anyone with a math background knows what that allows you . . . a license to manipulate results under the guise of science. What I do is OBJECTIVE what you do is SUBJECTIVE. There is no candy coating either side of that debate as much as you try.

Statisticians hate being boxed objectively and you are no different than any one in your field . . . which is a real shame. Safer to fall in line then to reach out and experience new things.

OK Prof, whilst I think your posts are mostly useful you surely cannot be dismissing the use of statistical techniques?

Sure, naive uses of statistics can "fudge" results.

But to say that this stuff is useless, well..., I guess all those semiconductors in your PC that you are using view this must have been designed on false assumptions...
 
Quote from hank rollins:

ok, prof. i tried to be nice, now go back to your little school and delusional world of holy grails.

:D

Nice? If you being nice is being closed-minded and condescending . . . you were absolutely wonderful.

Little school? So size matters to you. Sounds like a phallic thing to me. I thought institutions of higher learning were suppose to be just that. I teach at a small school and teach farmers to hedge . . . I suppose that is a black ball against me too.

Oh, and the Holy Grail of trading is internal, it's mastering & varifying whatever method you focus on completely . . . that would be something else you are closed-minded about.
 
Quote from Equalizer:

OK Prof, whilst I think your posts are mostly useful you surely cannot be dismissing the use of statistical techniques?

Sure, naive uses of statistics can "fudge" results.

But to say that this stuff is useless, well..., I guess all those semiconductors in your PC that you are using view this must have been designed on false assumptions...

I didn't say it was useless. Statistics has its usefulness, just not in trading where being as precise as humanly possible should be the goal of every trader.
 
Quote from ProfLogic:

I didn't say it was useless. Statistics has its usefulness, just not in trading where being as precise as humanly possible should be the goal of every trader.

OK Prof, then I misread between the lines...

I respect your point of view.

However, saying that statistical techniques are not useful in trading - to me that is as incorrect as the people arguing whether trends exist or not - or more importantly if one can trade successfully because of them.

Statistical techniques are useful in trading performance evaluation, risk management, trade entry/exit determination, etc...

There are successful traders that use trend following techniques and successful traders using statistical techniques (and possibly others that look at the stars...)

In the end it doesn't matter, what matters is the following:
Does the approach make you money on a consistent basis.

Good trading to all.
 
Quote from Equalizer:

OK Prof, then I misread between the lines...

I respect your point of view.

However, saying that statistical techniques are not useful in trading - to me that is as incorrect as the people arguing whether trends exist or not - or more importantly if one can trade successfully because of them.

Statistical techniques are useful in trading performance evaluation, risk management, trade entry/exit determination, etc...

There are successful traders that use trend following techniques and successful traders using statistical techniques (and possibly others that look at the stars...)

In the end it doesn't matter, what matters is the following:
Does the approach make you money on a consistent basis.

Good trading to all.
I agree. I should have said that statistical based systems need to be monitored more closely because they are subjective in nature.
 
Quote from NickelScalper:

Any system of trading must be capable of determining a sufficiently large (positive or negative) d, which is the difference between present price and a price to be marketable in the near future. The value of d is generated by the system in real time, and then the trader decides whether or not that d is of sufficient size to warrant a trade. If a system is incapable of generating a large enough d, or if it gives a wrong d too often, that system is bogus.

This variable d is also in the challenge question, which is repeated for purposes of reference:

What is a reliable method that can be applied to past price action to determine a usefully large positive or negative number d such that (p1-p0)>=d, where p0 is the current market price and p1 will be a marketable price in the near future?

I'm looking for an answer to be posted here in plain text form. The proof of the answer is also to be posted here, as real time trading calls that specify on what basis the proposed method is being invoked.

It's high time for someone to step up to the plate, swing and follow through.

My 2 cents:

Probably, basically you would never get the right answers you want (based on what I guess) by repeating the same (misleading) question above, it is simply because the question (and its assertions) itself is problematic.

First at all, you have established a model of a trading method, and you want others to follow your model without knowing the model by itself is questionable. And looks like you don't want anything deviated from the model by constantly tightening, rather than relaxing, the requirements of the model.

Second, a good model imo needs to consider both the market conditions and our corresponding actions. That means your model would be far too simple to simulate the reality of trading (whether profitable or or).

I think we may not like others' studies/ papers for many personal reasons, but learning something with an open mind about what others have (rightly or wrongly) done in order to improve our knowledge cannot be bad.

Third, even if it is only a component model of the whole model with a bigger picture. (That is not what you expect, it seems to me.) You then need to specify the scope and its delimiting clearly for discussion.

Forth, the model imo lacks some fundamental premises of trading for profits, and therefore it cannot be evaluated as a whole model. I guess this alone would be the most serious problem you need to think about to start again.

Fifth, ...

So on and so forth.

Perhaps you would need to review/ redesign/ refine the model in order to get better results in the future. There is no free lunch, Yet.

I'm only a newbie in trading, but I believe my experience learned and mistakes made so far would be good enough to present my views mentioned above for your consideration, whether to stick with the same model/ question/ assertions or not.

Good luck, always!

:confused:
 
my goodness. This is like reading a bad Sartre or Beckett play. A few disgruntled nihilists sitting in a room arguing over nothing for hours, days at a time with no resolution to any of their dilemmas. Better yet, none of them can escape their own minds. You guys are amazing. The stop loss for this thread was blown out days ago.

Senor Zen
 
Quote from yenzen:

my goodness. This is like reading a bad Sartre or Beckett play. A few disgruntled nihilists sitting in a room arguing over nothing for hours, days at a time with no resolution to any of their dilemmas. Better yet, none of them can escape their own minds. You guys are amazing. The stop loss for this thread was blown out days ago.

Senor Zen

Aaahhhh! C'mon!!!! It's fun watching and exposing all the nihilists making a fool out of themselves... :(

:D

:D
 
Quote from TSGannGalt:

Aaahhhh! C'mon!!!! It's fun watching and exposing all the nihilists making a fool out of themselves... :(

:D

:D

I agree, especially the ones that brag about being banned they are really a hoot.
 
Quote from yenzen:

my goodness. This is like reading a bad Sartre or Beckett play. A few disgruntled nihilists sitting in a room arguing over nothing for hours, days at a time with no resolution to any of their dilemmas. Better yet, none of them can escape their own minds. You guys are amazing. The stop loss for this thread was blown out days ago.

Senor Zen

Senor, you know that we're traders, we keep posting here mainly for entertainment. :)
 
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