Treat CDS for what it is: FRAUD

Quote from Cutten:

This would indeed be a great plan, but you overlook the fact that government is far too stupid to come up with anything this clever.

Whenever there are two explanations for something, always prefer the one that relies on a higher level of stupidity and incompetence amongst the protagonists.
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Of course the government did not COME UP with the plan....you are not catching the point from many of my posts. Factions of our government are only the tools used by the globalist entities to conduct their destructive business. Globalist wealth entities have developed the numerous detailed agendas which are being carried out almost exactly as devised.

I have spent several years now researching various global wealth entities and their process of planning development and execution. It is very shocking at times to actually see how close previously detailed plans turn out to be our current reality (like the plans and recommendations which were developed out of the 2002 Bilderberg meetings).

Anyone who thinks the current world financial crisis is caused by random events is just not PROPERLY informed. It is a pain in the a$$ to research and follow all the various activities that are involved, but our country is worth it and the information needs to get out.
 
Interesting Points...

There is one government entity with the teeth and balls to prosecute financial crimes. http://www.FINCEN.gov

They are part of the Department of the Treasury and further empowered under the Patriot Act. They have free reign to seize funds for financial crimes.

FinCEN was created in 1990 to support federal, state, local, and international law enforcement by analyzing the information required under the Bank Secrecy Act (BSA), one of the nation's most important tools in the fight against money laundering.

CDS's for prosecution purposes may be better classified as financial instruments used and devised for purposes of Money Laundering.

Only problem... Department of the Treasury has conflicts of interest.
 
PocketChange has got it right.....

Paulson is ST...for one reason....

Tax free stock...Several hundred million tax savings....Wonder who approved it ?
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Also examine the sequence of rescue events...

$ for buying outright which would be the same as just losing public $....

Now the theme is $ for public ownership of the stock....



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My hope is that things get bad enough so that even Johnny Joe Public will get off the dime and take his country back....

The whole story is very obvious.
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However , one thing for sure....Paulson pulled it off.... for HIMSELF....

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No income taxes...10% consumption tax only.....

No corporate taxes....

Turn the Washington government buildings into condos...

Worldwide direct access no frills stock exchange.....

Banking ....by township...discounted asset based loans....

Education internet based.......even the educational playing field....

Medicine....not a business....but breakthroughs rewarded.....

Govt locally managed by township....

..........Burn the rest of it.......
 
Quote from Jachyra:

Because not being able to meet your financial obligations, in and of itself, does not constitute fraud. Although the legal definition for fraud will vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, most legal definitions of fraud require "deliberate misrepresentation or concealment" or some degree of "trickery with intent to deceive." So in order to prove fraud, you'd have to prove that at the time they wrote the contracts, that they either made material misrepresentations or that they never had any intent to make good on their obligations. However unfortunate it may be, being a bad businessman and making bad business decisions is not against the law in this country.

In regards to why they aren't illegal insurance contracts... the answer is simple... in order for something to be illegal you need laws, regulations, and/or statutes that make it illegal... and so far there aren't hardly any laws dealing at all with CDS's... therefore, not illegal.

Another reason that they have had a hard time deciding whether or not it should be regulated as insurance is because a lot of the people who were on the buy side of the CDS's (the policy holders so to speak), didn't necessarily have an insurable interest, which is a component and requirement of insurance. I can't just go over to the old age home down the street, take out insurance policies on 10 complete strangers, and hope that a couple of them die so that I can get rich. If I want to take out insurance on someone I have to have an "insurable interest"... Now if you are a bondholder and buy a CDS then technically its functioning the same way an insurance policy would, and it might be construed as insurance (although really its just a covered bond), however if I'm not a bondholder and I purchase a CDS then technically I'm not insuring anything... I'm actually just establishing a short position on some corporation's debt.

Now I'm not saying that the whole situation doesn't make me ill... but what you really should be angry about is that the $65 trillion CDS market is the largest unregulated market ever in the history of the world... so the solution would be to push for laws, regulation, and oversight... and a little transparency wouldn't hurt either.
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Well this is good stuff and I thank you.

Someone is going to sue on one these soon I'd imagine (if they haven't already). I'll be interested to see what the guys in robes do with esoteric defenses - unenforceability, illegality, public policy, etc.... . type issues.
 
Quote from robbie380:

my bold prediction for this thread....

the original poster will never make another post in this thread!


what do i win?:D
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1 share of WaMu stock!!! :D
 
All joking aside for a second.

This FINCEN money laundering angle has got some serious teeth!

I believe cause of action exists for both criminal and civil claims under RICO statutes for this CDS mess. Treble damages plus fees are recoverable and you can not only sue each corporate officer but you can sue individual government officials if they overstep their actual or apparent authority.

These claims can be brought in your local state court and are not preempted like ERISA claims into a federal court.

I am really surpised the lawyers have not jumped all over this.
 
Quote from PocketChange:

All joking aside for a second.

This FINCEN money laundering angle has got some serious teeth!

I believe cause of action exists for both criminal and civil claims under RICO statutes for this CDS mess. Treble damages plus fees are recoverable and you can not only sue each corporate officer but you can sue individual government officials if they overstep their actual or apparent authority.

These claims can be brought in your local state court and are not preempted like ERISA claims into a federal court.

I am really surpised the lawyers have not jumped all over this.
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Personally I think its a bit of a stretch, but I guess time will tell.

Typically irresponsible behavior goes hand in hand with negligence, which tends to be a civil matter... A necessary component of criminal prosecution is "mens rea" (with the exception of strict liability cases) which means you need to be able to prove intent to break the law if you want to be able to successfully prosecute them.

On the civil side, however, I would think that the shareholders might have a decent claim for some type of negligence or abuse of discretion... but even that would be an extremely difficult case to make, since most shareholder agreements typically include clauses that indemnify the officers against such claims.
 
Quote from Cutten:

this is about as likely to happen as a UFO piloted by Elvis Presley crash-landing onto the Loch Ness Monster.
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LOL
Can you put a figure on this probability ?
 
I think the CDS market should be heavily regulated.

And I think existing contracts should be canceled.

As for the money to pay.

If 1/2 the Free world dies in a plague, do you think life insurance co's will be able to pay off?

They play the same game. And now that their beloved 'portfolios' are porked, they can't even pay off if more than a few people catch a cold.
 
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