transitioning into an institutional career from prop

Quote from BOSS_HOG:

thanks for the perspective and I can understand some of the concerns that an institution would have in hiring a prop trader. I have worked at brokerage houses before becoming a prop trader, so I am familiar with and would easily re-adapt to corporate culture. That is not the issue- I know I would perform well with one of these types of firms. It took me being a broker, then a trader, to decide EXACTLY what I wanted to be doing for a career in the financial arena. I also am well versed in both fundamental and technical analysis- I read extensively and put in a lot of work after hours- it drives my GF crazy. So, I'm working my old brokerage contacts, but REALLY need a list of hedge funds/ asset management firms by locale. I can sell myself and am young enough (almost 27) that I am still (and will be for a very long time) hungry, hard-working, disciplined and ambitious. I think for an institution to overlook someone merely based on the fact that they were once a prop trader is naive. Hiring should be based on:
1- if you really know your shit and have a solid education
2-if you are passionate about the market
3- you can demonstrate a track record
4- you demonstrate that you work well with a team (past exp.)
5- you won't waste their time and money, you will generate revenues and work VERY hard.

I can satisfy those criteria and more, so, what do I have to do to get a shot????
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what it should be
you sound like the poster boy for equality.....
there are times that all of us Ivy League fly boys want to lower our profile and just get a dependable government job at the Post Office or otherwise. Sounds like you're going through one of those times.

Ever hear of the maxim that goes something like this: "the things you want most are the things that won't come your way"?

So, do like all the other prop traders out hear and moon those frogs, and do it yourself for yourself.

Simply put, regroup, prove you can trade by taking whatever sized grubstake you have, and building it into your own Prop Shop or Hedge Fund, or Empire.

Its going to come down to that conclusion either now or later for ya.

Cheers
 
Quote from GetWhatUDeserve:

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The consensus I have read here is that those big firms will tend to discount your abilities because the assertion is that when you are a prop trader, you, for lack of a better phrase, cannot really be a team player. This reduces your intrinsic sheep value.

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This is the most important point: Employees at large firms are encouraged to be be creative but only to a point. Indoctrination into a command and control structure is really what they desire and they employ this attribute along with a fallacy-of-the-lottery mantra to get long hours of hard work out of their recruits.

In most cases there is little long term value in staying with a large company in an attempt to obtained high compensation. It can happen and if you truly enjoy the organization then a long term play makes sense. However, if you are truly gifted you should be able to translate that ability into creating value through starting companies where you retain a larger share of value for all your hard work.
 
Quote from bigbeech:

I am also thinking about going institutional from prop-
I have a thread entitled "trading masters degree" where I am asking about the value of getting a masters degree with a trading/ alternative investments concentration. I think it will help, you all should check out the thread and tell me what you think :D
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copy the title and provide the link so we can click on it instead of having to search for it and wasting a lot of time, and probably missing it.

cheers
 
I am a private trader who manages my family trust. I am a fundamental value guy who has destroyed the S&P over the last five years by an average of 27% annually.

I have tried many times (10-15x?) to get a job at mutual/hedge funds, and never have had any success getting so much as an interview, even at shops that didn't have a single fund within 20% of my YTD performance. I don't have an MBA but have an honors finance undergrad degree from a top 20 school, and several years as a credit analyst at a couple of money center banks, so my background is OK if not stellar.

I don't want to discourage you but I have found breaking into money-management incredibly difficult, particularly if you are unwilling to get an MBA or start at the ground floor as an analyst. At this point I am unwilling to do either of these things because I don't think I could take working for a guy who is one-third the investor I am even if I got paid a lot of money for it- nor do I want to fork over 40-60K and two years of my life to get "qualified" for something I am already doing.

The thing that gets me is that guys like Bill Miller beat the S&P by 2 or 3% a year for 10 years in a row and gets on 20 million magazine covers and is called a genius by everyone, and I beat the S&P by an average of 27% for five years in a row, and can't get an interview for an assistant portfolio manager postion for some two-bit fund run out Greenville, SC and need to eat tuna fish and crackers to avoid hitting up my capital!

Basically I have become resigned to doing this on my own. At some point my capital will be big enough that I wouldn't want to work at an institution anyway. I don't know, maybe slaving away on my own account is keeping me "hungry" in a very important way. If I simply started out throwing around $100MM in "OPM" I might not have had the drive to accomplish anything and would've settled for being a performance chasing mediocrity like most mutual fund guys obviously are.

Good luck to ya.
 
agree with some of the other posters.

working at a "prop" firm is a blemish on your career. this matter is not really in question. no one will take that experience seriously.

distance yourself from these firms and don't advertise any involvement.
 
Quote from SoxxClinton:
The thing that gets me is that guys like Bill Miller beat the S&P by 2 or 3% a year for 10 years in a row and gets on 20 million magazine covers and is called a genius by everyone, and I beat the S&P by an average of 27% for five years in a row, and can't get an interview for an assistant portfolio manager postion for some two-bit fund run out Greenville, SC and need to eat tuna fish and crackers to avoid hitting up my capital!
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Right, you are beating the S&P or whatever benchmark you set for yourself. But do you know what kinds of risks are you running? Also, what makes you think that whatever black magic you are doing would work on a portfolio of 100M?

BTW, what's with the "money management" - why not look for a prop position with a larger firm or fund?
 
Quote from FinStat:

agree with some of the other posters.

working at a "prop" firm is a blemish on your career. this matter is not really in question. no one will take that experience seriously.

distance yourself from these firms and don't advertise any involvement.
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you have to say that you were prop before- what if you get hired and then they see you had your 7 at a prop shop??? it would be lying not to say I have been a prop trader
 
Quote from sle:



Right, you are beating the S&P or whatever benchmark you set for yourself. But do you know what kinds of risks are you running? Also, what makes you think that whatever black magic you are doing would work on a portfolio of 100M?

BTW, what's with the "money management" - why not look for a prop position with a larger firm or fund?
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I should clarify- I am not a trader so much as a portfolio manager. The S&P benchmark is appropriate- I run a multicap 50-70 position value tilted portfolio. Risk is far less than the S&P for several reasons- the portfolio has a beta of .65, P/E around 70% of the market. Also use hedging strategies to go various percentages of "market neutral" after big runs in the market. Average holding period maybe six months. My strategy could be easily duplicated at amounts maybe even up to $250MM. All in all my portfolio is not too much different from the average fund out there so the fact that my five year returns would put me in the top 1/2 of 1% or even higher of all mutual funds and be generally competitive with the hedge fund community is statistically legitimate. Risk adjusted it could probably even rank higher since it is a fully-diversified, low-beta, multi-cap, value oriented portfolio.
 
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