Transition for pit to screen

N

Nasdaq5048

Is there any pit trader that has susscessfully made the transition from the pit to the screen, especially in the bonds and S&P ?

The question i have is that trading from the screen is a totally different thing. Is like having to move from the earth to mars. How can people make this such transition successfully?

1. There are no feel trading on the screen. You don't hear the noise, and have no idea when the market move to an extreme. You don't see the people, and don't see what the suckers are doing.

2.You don't see who is buying and selling. Moreover, you don't know whether the bid is real or not. There could be bid for 13K in treasury notes, and 30 seconds later, is all gone.

3. You have no edge at all executing trades. Screen trading is on a first come first serve bases. How can you execute trades at an advantage price (ie. Buying the bid, selling the ask)?

I would really appreciate for any inputs from people who have experience. Thanks a lot in advance
 
Quote from Nasdaq5048:

Is there any pit trader that has susscessfully made the transition from the pit to the screen, especially in the bonds and S&P ?

The question i have is that trading from the screen is a totally different thing. Is like having to move from the earth to mars. How can people make this such transition successfully?

1. There are no feel trading on the screen. You don't hear the noise, and have no idea when the market move to an extreme. You don't see the people, and don't see what the suckers are doing.

2.You don't see who is buying and selling. Moreover, you don't know whether the bid is real or not. There could be bid for 13K in treasury notes, and 30 seconds later, is all gone.

3. You have no edge at all executing trades. Screen trading is on a first come first serve bases. How can you execute trades at an advantage price (ie. Buying the bid, selling the ask)?

I would really appreciate for any inputs from people who have experience. Thanks a lot in advance
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I have been screen trading now for 2 years, but started very small in the pits.....I would say that on the screen, you simply have to be right more often. I say this because you really have no edge on the screen. However, you have to pick your levels and trust them. Many times Ive seen huge orders hit the screen, either stops or market orders, and if you have your bids and offers in, you'll get filled without having to just put in market orders.

As for the feel of it, I'd say it def exsits, it just takes some time getting used to. And if you have mutiple markets up at the same time, you can really get a feel for how each market reacts to each other.
 
i know a former pit trader who is now a screen trader.

he;ll never go back

there IS pit noise available if you want it, btw. there are subscription services for it.

he uses primarily pit noise, time/sales, and TICK to trade the index futures
 
Quote from whitster:

i know a former pit trader who is now a screen trader.

he;ll never go back

there IS pit noise available if you want it, btw. there are subscription services for it.

he uses primarily pit noise, time/sales, and TICK to trade the index futures
More...

Having pit noise at home is a bit different than being at the pit live right? I have subscribed to pit noise and squawk box. I am just wondering if the pit eventually go extinct (just a matter of time). How can i get a feel for the market? The S&P still have a lot of noise, but the bonds is quieter than quiet for most of the day.
 
Quote from Nasdaq5048:

The question i have is that trading from the screen is a totally different thing. Is like having to move from the earth to mars. How can people make this such transition successfully?

1. There are no feel trading on the screen. You don't hear the noise, and have no idea when the market move to an extreme. You don't see the people, and don't see what the suckers are doing.

2.You don't see who is buying and selling. Moreover, you don't know whether the bid is real or not. There could be bid for 13K in treasury notes, and 30 seconds later, is all gone.

3. You have no edge at all executing trades. Screen trading is on a first come first serve bases. How can you execute trades at an advantage price (ie. Buying the bid, selling the ask)?
More...

The lack of feel comes becuase there an immediate lack of physical senses when trading on the screen. You don' t have the guy yelling in your ears, spitting in your hair, and stabbing you with a pen! :) To be serious, all these are true, but it takes more cerebral senses and tools for off the floor trading. One tool that I use is Market Delta. It helps take the elusiveness out of the market (like the 13K that was there and you don't know what the hell happened to hit when price trades at or through it!) because it shows the traded volume.
Other tools like market stats (tick, trin, etc) can be useful for stock indexes. For bonds, I think picking your levels and monitoring the trade at those levels is your best bet if trading outrights. Scalping bonds outright will be a very tough proposition.
 
in regards to the pit noise, he says that he uses the pit noise with headphones. he says without the headphones it is not nearly as useful.
 
oh, and i have been taking a serious look at market delta

i am a big believer in simplicity, and i tend not to like indicators like MACD, RSI etc. for index futures. i do like market internals (TICK, AD) and volume and especially Market Profile

Market Delta seems to fit right in with my style. i may give it a try
 
Quote from bigskytrader:

The lack of feel comes becuase there an immediate lack of physical senses when trading on the screen. You don' t have the guy yelling in your ears, spitting in your hair, and stabbing you with a pen! :) To be serious, all these are true, but it takes more cerebral senses and tools for off the floor trading. One tool that I use is Market Delta. It helps take the elusiveness out of the market (like the 13K that was there and you don't know what the hell happened to hit when price trades at or through it!) because it shows the traded volume.
Other tools like market stats (tick, trin, etc) can be useful for stock indexes. For bonds, I think picking your levels and monitoring the trade at those levels is your best bet if trading outrights. Scalping bonds outright will be a very tough proposition.
More...

This is exactly what i am trying to get to regarding to the feel stuff.

I have never heard of MarketDelta before you mentioned it. Is pretty cool. But, it still doesnt solve the mystery whether the bid is real or not. Locals in the pit can trade in front of big paper bid and just sell it to them for a one tick lost if things go wrong. Because they know the bid is for real and will stay there. On the screen, the bid just dissapear and you cant do anything about it. This is the edge i am talking about. How do ex-pit trader, who is trading on the screen deal with that?
 
You have to trade completely differently in front of the screen. Forget the huge bids/offers. Now, I hold my trades much more longer than when I was on the floor, no more sclap trades and I position trade. I scale my buys and my sells. It takes some time to get used to. Simulated trading first as help me a lot. This is the only way for me to be profitable in front of the screen. Good luck.
 
if you are listening to the pit noise, with the barker, you know EXACTLy WHO BOUGHT WHAT and how much

"goldman on the bid"
"goldman buys 100 at 25" etc.

regardless, level II is rubbish.

i didn';t say he watched level II (the bids and asks) . i said he (and I ) watch TIME/SALES

bids/asks can always be faked, bogus, etc

time/sales is never fake
 
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