Training for Mass

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with virtually no rest whatsoever in between and each set
Yes, that was another thing that I didn't much like in the two books of his that I read in the 1980s. I have always favored a longer rest between sets to make sure that it was anaerobic rather than aerobic failure that ended the set. I realize that Darden, as well as Jones, liked moving quickly from set to set (as does Doug McGuff, who wrote Body By Science), and I understand that it offers both a cardio and metabolic advantage, but it's a bit much. I prefer doing my interval cardio later to get that part of the health benefit.

Going forward, do you see yourself moving from set to set in such quick fashion in your workouts?
 
I just finished my session with Ellington Darden. We talked about a lot of things, so I will keep the comments within the context of this thread, which is building mass.

He definitely emphasized that two workouts per week is plenty to build significant mass over time, and that was because neither him nor his colleagues couldn't measure any additional muscle development from workout frequencies above that. However, he said that you can only build muscle if you're sitting on your ass the rest of the week. If you're filling in your rest days with cardio and/or sports, the most you can hope to achieve is to maintain the muscle you already have.

No matter what though, he said the intensity has to be high to maximize results from the two weekly workous, and he showed me examples of how to achieve that intensity with 5 exercises without the need for someone to help me or spot me, which was really cool.

An example of this is the standing shoulder press using a barbell with 50lbs of weight. First of all, he advocates the use of an extra thick bar or the use of Fat Gripz on a standard size bar. The following is the one and only shoulder set:

Take the bar and press it overhead. Now slowly lower the bar in 30 seconds, yes 30, until it rests in the lowest position at the collar bone level. Then do 10 traditional reps, each with a cadence of 1 second up, 2 seconds down (pretty much normal reps). When you get the last rep up to the top, once again lower the bar slowly over 30 seconds until it reaches your collar bones. That's it. Mission accomplished. Shoulders fried.

He had me go from the shoulder press to dips, and then to bicep curls, followed by chinups, and finally leg presses..... with virtually no rest whatsoever in between and each set had a similar level of super slow brutality. As you can imagine, My muscles had a very deep level of stimulation. So much so that I can't even remember the last time they felt that way. It's that feeling you got on the first heavy leg workout you ever did. You know, you sit down for a second after the workout, and then when you get ready to stand up, your legs feel so weak that you're not sure if they can get your body up and hold it upright. And that was just my legs. My shoulders felt like if the police came in and told me to put my hands up, I'm not sure I could actually do it. My arms and lats were trashed as well. The whole thing from beginning to end couldn't have been any more than 15 minutes, and let me tell you, it was disturbing how I felt.

He did comment on my actual body structure, saying "After seeing countless people, I can tell you that you're not elite level but you're definitely above average. And for 180 lbs., you look damn good."

It was cool session to say the least and definitely an eye opener.
How are you feeling today? Like you wrestled a grizzly, lol?
 
" However, he said that you can only build muscle if you're sitting on your ass the rest of the week. If you're filling in your rest days with cardio and/or sports, the most you can hope to achieve is to maintain the muscle you already have." That seems counter intuitive. I wonder what the physiology underlying that is.
 
" However, he said that you can only build muscle if you're sitting on your ass the rest of the week. If you're filling in your rest days with cardio and/or sports, the most you can hope to achieve is to maintain the muscle you already have." That seems counter intuitive. I wonder what the physiology underlying that is.
Not counterintuitive at all. It suggests that other activity should be minimized to allow for full recovery and overcompensation from the workouts. So my guess is that the frequency has to be less if you also want to engage in other meaningful activity. However, I'm still awaiting Baron's response for clarification. (Perhaps he's still recovering. :D)
 
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Not counterintuitive at all. It suggests that other activity should be minimized to allow for full recovery and overcompensation from the workouts. So my guess is that the frequency has to be less if you also want to engage in other meaningful activity. However, I'm still awaiting Baron's response for clarification. (Perhaps he's still recovering. :D)
Yep, muscle is not built during workouts, it's building after workouts.
 
Let's hope Baron is okay. I didn't like reading that he was disturbed how he felt after this workout. Last time I felt "disturbed" leaving the gym I was in the ER and hour later. Yes, I'm a beat up old guy, but anyone can over do it. Hope you're okay Baron
 
So I went through my next ultra-high-intense workout session yesterday. After the 4th set, I had to stop because I thought I was going to puke. This time he had me start off with legs and then move to the upper body. I did a leg curl set, a leg press set, and a calf set. No rest between sets. At this point I'm breathing deep and uncontrollably like I just sprinted to failure. Once I did a set on the pullover machine for the back, the room started spinning. I had to lay face down on the floor breathing into a paper bag. It still blows me away to think that only 4 sets could do that. This HIT shit is no joke.

Ellington said I felt like that because I was literally high on oxygen.. meaning that my body wasn't used to that level of oxygen intake due to the crazy rapid breathing. It's the fact that there's no rest between sets that's killing me. I have no problem pushing myself to the max, but with no rest at all, once my heart rate and breathing get elevated due to something like set to negative failure on the leg press, I feel like I can never catch my breath after that. It's probably just something that takes getting used to.
 
So I went through my next ultra-high-intense workout session yesterday. After the 4th set, I had to stop because I thought I was going to puke. This time he had me start off with legs and then move to the upper body. I did a leg curl set, a leg press set, and a calf set. No rest between sets. At this point I'm breathing deep and uncontrollably like I just sprinted to failure. Once I did a set on the pullover machine for the back, the room started spinning. I had to lay face down on the floor breathing into a paper bag. It still blows me away to think that only 4 sets could do that. This HIT shit is no joke.

Ellington said I felt like that because I was literally high on oxygen.. meaning that my body wasn't used to that level of oxygen intake due to the crazy rapid breathing. It's the fact that there's no rest between sets that's killing me. I have no problem pushing myself to the max, but with no rest at all, once my heart rate and breathing get elevated due to something like set to negative failure on the leg press, I feel like I can never catch my breath after that. It's probably just something that takes getting used to.
I'd be interested to know if this is a format that you find sustainable over time. Please keep us apprised.

Also, I wonder what the beneficial effect is supposed to be in going from exercise to exercise without resting in between, especially when doing so for different muscle groups. I can readily see the cardio benefit, but I'm not sure how this is supposed to benefit muscle growth.
 
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