Trading without LIMIT orders and randomizing the book

guru said:
“HFTs are increasingly focused on cheats, exploits, and regulatory circumvention in order to get an edge over the competition and the public customer.”
More...
Replace the word Hft with "Wall Street" and he nailed it. If you think it's unique formulas that makes money for big players, you are naive. Just my opinion.
 
What do you think about this? Infinitely more money involved, yet no spotlight on this industry. How convenient to find a scape goat to divert attention.


Dirty Little Secret No. 7: The Long Game
What do you get when you take a bunch of powerful, well-lobbied retirement plan companies with teams of lawyers who stretch from here to the moon and pit them against millions of plan participants who are like drops of water in the ocean? You get “The Long Game.” It goes like this:

Get the clients to pay as much as they will agree to. Collect ridiculous sums of money year after years. Get sued by one out of 100,000 clients. Fight it out for years in court. Write a check only if the court makes you. Have a steak dinner and laugh it off. Repeat.

https://www.nextavenue.org/secrets-401k-plans/amp
 
qlai said:
What do you think about this?
More...

Not much, as this could become a longer discussion and getting off topic.
I was just pointing out that discussing ways to get better fills may be valid, while part of trading involves finding edges and trying to get your orders filled without being taken advantage of. And basically walking a limit order is legal, done at least occasionally by most traders, while also being supported by some brokers. Then the discussion may revolve around how to utilize such methods and tools to our advantage, what are alternatives, what's legal and what's not, etc.
Possibly this discussion just started off on a wrong foot, while various aspects of it might've been discussed in the past and/or elsewhere, possibly daily at water coolers.
 
qlai said:
Replace the word Hft with "Wall Street" and he nailed it. If you think it's unique formulas that makes money for big players, you are naive. Just my opinion.
More...
I agree it is not just HFt, but what if there is collusion between HFT adn wallstreet.. like citadel and Virt are starting to clear now as well.. which means they will alwasy get the spread and know massive order flow. This will ALL be changing soon or teh market is doomed and INVESTORS. the money that is jostled daily in the markets will pull all of the money out. This down draft will not have a lot buyer this time around.. backto 19K in the dow quite possible over teh next 6 months.
 
Overnight said:
If someone from the CME Market Regulation department saw that italicized line up there, here's how I see it could go down...

Their legal team sends a duces tecum subpoena to Baron for your IP addy. They then attempt to discover who your ISP is to identify you. Then they subpoena you for information regarding your broker. If they find it, they then duces tecum your broker for you trading account records...Then they look up your trade ID numbers and see if you did indeed place said orders without the intent to trade, which they can tie to here, which you have admitted to.

In the spirit of rule 575.A you are engaging in manipulation. Of course it can be considered a grey area, but the fact that you seem adamant about telling everyone else to do it seems so blatantly manipulative in it's own right?

*shrugs*

Dude, I don't think active people here who trade are thinking so deeply about how to screw over the true manipulators and spoofers by not beating them but joining them, we're just trying to make a decent living trading our few lots per day in a simpler fashion.

We don't need a poorly-written thesis on the hows, whys and whats of the order books. It just isn't that important.
More...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/judge-...ion-case-against-don-wilson-jr-drw-1543858721
 
https://www.wsj.com/articles/judge-...ion-case-against-don-wilson-jr-drw-1543858721

well i love it when the crows come home to roost.. someone told me to eat crow.. I guess they are out under a rock! YOU CAN AND SHOULD MOVE YOUR BIDS AND OFFERS AROUND ON THE LIMIT ORDER BOOK. it was legal a year ago and now a judge in NY set it in stone. HFt scored a huge win today. I was never talking about spoofing.. now the cme adn the cftc realize they can no longer hve people banned and fined and arrested for cancelling orrders or placing orders on th limti order book and changing their mind. BEING SMARTER means you might need to cancel orders. HA .. get ready for this market to really start having some volatility sunday night. YOU CAN NOW take it a step further and actually say.. SPOOFING is legal for all now! I hope you see that Don was spoofing and manipulating.. but its all legal now.
 
REDP1800 said:
YOU CAN AND SHOULD MOVE YOUR BIDS AND OFFERS AROUND ON THE LIMIT ORDER BOOK.
More...
Can you stop typing at the speed of light and intelligently explain for what reason you want people to move limit orders around? We don't know what kind of trading style you have that you have multiple limit orders layered in the book and need to constantly move them around. Since there are no liquidity rebates in the US Futures, why even place limit orders unless you need position in the queue.
Please explain or this is getting out of hand.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top