Trading without LIMIT orders and randomizing the book
- Thread starter REDP1800
- Start date
It gets cancelled instantly and does nto sit onthe book. Mkt with protection just means you can "safely" make mkt orders knowing that you will not get nailed during a fast market more than 3 pts.. that i swhat that means. The stops are teh same way. CMe only accepts, limit, mkt, stop, and stop limit orders for the CLOB. I completely agree with you about the members for the members. You can apply what i am sayng to stocks as well especially the small/microcaps where hundreds of newbies are learning to trade and watching the tapw which is moving at microsecond speeds.I don't have much experience with Futures, but CME's mkt order is really a marketable limit order (mkt with protection). The order doesn't get cancelled back to you, but goes on the book instead. So you send mkt buy order and two things may happen ... 1) the market runs away from you and leaves you behind a nice move2) the market runs away from you but it was a temporary spike, now your order is seating nicely there for people who need to get out to profit from that spike
Futures market is for the members by the members. If you don't like it, don't play. Again, I am not as familiar with Futures and the examples above may be very rare and thus not an issue most of the time.
there is a littel truth to what you are saying, but eveery one of those is predatory in their own way. I've been wondering lately is most of the gains of a lot of hedge funds over the years was actually BA spread trading but now the hedgies dont have the resources or are too late to the arms race for tech to compete at any level. We all thought they were buying and holding.. ha
I am complaining about hft's because it doesn't help much with finding price adn any money that consistently comes out no matter how small alwasy in teh end ads up to lots of money out of INVESTORS pockets. if you make half the spread halg the time on 30% of all stocks on every tick then you explain to me.. how that isn't going to erode the markets. Even floor locals in teh pits had losing days and gave some back.. lots blew out.. that MONEY went back into the "MARKET/CASINO" get it.. this money isn't going back in randomly to unknowns.. it is going back to 3 to5 companies and then they re deploy it to further the manipulation. Anyway, may main point is that RETAIL day traders need to take action and start to play the game diffrently which means getting legally disruptive and taking advantage of the law just like all the other participants. I would also say that the futures eventhoug liquid do nto have that many trades or participants versus the stock market and "orders; Can be follwoed or watched and logged much eassier at the merc than in stocks. It is true.. the CME moves first then stocks follow.. only because the futures move quickly with lots of leverage.
Example: in the last second there were 12 emini contracts traded. in the same minute.. you had 379 contractsw traded. now if 200 of thosw was "you" then you really only have 179 more contracts to mark and map and follow.. where as in stocks you could 1 share trades etc. typically will hve 1000's of shares per second or minute. If you strip away "LEVERAGE" and look athow few RETAIL participants are in the futures markets then I think one could say that stocks for many reasons are a much better vehicle to profitable day trading mainly because of my rambling sentence.. just kidding mainly due to the ability to trade, small, medium, or large based on your capital not the CONTRACT size sicne teh minimum trade is a few shares per trade versus the emini which is about 500 shares minimum of the SPY. if you want the ability to add and reduce a position in steps you will need to have on some serious leverage in the futres where you could do it in stocks on 100 shares.. and holding overnight in stocks if that is what you decide does not cost you NIGHT MARGIN so you could convert a day trade into an overnight trade (saving) commissions compared to futures (cuz u didn't hold). anyway.
i am missing the open. bye ya'll
I said CANCEL the order not that your entire MKT order was not filled.. are you dense? I said CANCEL adn then you said well if yu cancel an order it goes to the book as a limit order. um no.. if you byuy a large qty and it goes beyond the protection point whihc right now is 3 pts in the emini then yes it will show as a limit.. but that is BUYING HUGE QTY not CANCELLING maybe reread what you wrote and delete it before the commuity sees that your knee jerk reaction and quick googling of MIP orders at the CME on the CLOB you a hven't a clue.
Your market is fille dinstantly because of all the liquidity.. you would have to do a a coupel 1000 once busting all stop orders etc to actually have the order convert to a limit. how moronic to have mkt orders that become limits. nothing hits the book that is a mkt order for 90% of everyone and there is an an order function at the CME to IFM, IN FLIGHT MITIGATION so that even if you were to potentially have your huge mkt order convert to a limit order then the remainig would just cancel.. now that is how you clear a limit order book!
https://www.cmegroup.com/confluence...Order+Cancel-Replace+and+In-Flight+Mitigation
When you use trading as your lifeblood you must understand who you are playing against and what weapomns they have to clobber you. the CLOB means clobber us.. ha.. anyway You have to dig deep to undertand how the trade engines work and the leys to the kingdom come at 12K a month plus for direct feed. it is not just speed.. it is the inner workings of the match engine with it's own jittery secrets. Jitter makes them millions. HFT
Um that is really old news and that is not what i am talking about and they faield to mention that he had a partner in chicago and understand that what he did may have been illegal in the eyes of the cme and cftc but the only reason was because he wanted to PROGRAM a computer to do the cancelling and not himself. ALso he was trying to get filled on the opposite sid eof the spread. which is not what i am saying at all. SADLY if you are a member you can do this every microsecond of everyday but if the puclib tries it then they will make an example out of you .. ha ridiculous. Not sure why you think posting that has any merit to this conversation. it is not SPOOFING or disruptive.. this board is really mroe basic than I ever imagined it being. do you gusy actually trade in here? I ahve doen some minis in between our chats. mkt orders.
https://www.cmegroup.com/globex/trade-on-cme-globex/messaging-efficiency-program.html
this is how they (hft synthetic mm) cancel all day and everyday legally spoofing
this is how they (hft synthetic mm) cancel all day and everyday legally spoofing