trading without charts...suicide?

Fader

I guess your right. I should at least wait till I get ELITE, that way i can get L2 also to get a better sense of what's going on. As far as indicators go, CMF and MACD seem to be a good combo.

What indicators do you use Fader?

- nathan
 
Quote from FaderTrader:

I think it comes down to "getting a feel" for the particular instrument one is trading.

I'm inclined to think that all of the savants who don't require charts learned to trade this way when the NYSE Open Book games were in thier infancy. It was very easy to make money back then. In fact, many traders who deployed front-running as thier SOLE trading strategy have been forced out of the business. On the other hand, a refined tape reading ability combined with an intuitive sense of when to trade with a move or fade it, is surely a winning combo.

My only point is that if you are trying to trade solely off the tape now - with everyone wise to what's going on (fake size, hidden order books) - you have little hope of excelling. There is too much bullshit on the tape to get a solid sense of what's occuring.

If you're a newb, pass on tape reading, and figure out how to use a chart with as few indicators as possible.
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I agree fully. When I started, tape reading was a bit more straightfoward and I knew seveal people who exclusively relied on that method -- decoding the specialist -- as their technique. It's definitely on its last legs, and it's not really addressing the core principles of trading.

It's still absolutely crucial for me to have tape access to time my entries and get a feel for the rhythm of the instrument, but I can't live without charts. A chart provides so much information instantaneously: how closely a stock follows the market, patterns, significant levels, how smooth the moves are. Can't get that info elsewhere unless you stare at every transaction in three stocks max and have an unbelievable memory.
 
Some claim to be "tape readers", but I've never been able to get that feel.

The charts are a visual of what players actually DID. Getting a feel for what you think you should do based on charts seems to be one of the best approaches.
 
I don't use charts...

Because I system trade.

I can trade with a single chart using technical analysis, but why limit myself if I can use quotes and multiple charts?

Some people are losing their point. Use whatever that makes money, as much as you want.

If you are not making money... NOW that's a different story... Your focus shouldn't be on chart or no-chart, mind as well take time studying and understanding market dynamics...

(Actually, losing traders aren't entitled to speak up anyways...)

Anyways... some of the guys posting in here needs to be a bit more rational about their decision. You should change something when there is a clear rational possibility of some market dynamics which you can possibly expose to make you more money (aka edge).

Just my 2 cents
 
When you guys talk about "a feel for the mkt", could you be more specific? I realize it's somewhat intangible, partly intuitive perhaps, but can you pin down some specific characteristics that contribute to "feel"? Is it something like volatility? How the mkt reacts to news? How the mkt performs relative to another mkt (or a stock to its parent index)? Whether it leads/lags? How it behaves at s/r?

Thanks,
Harold
 
Quote from hcour:

When you guys talk about "a feel for the mkt", could you be more specific? I realize it's somewhat intangible, partly intuitive perhaps, but can you pin down some specific characteristics that contribute to "feel"? Is it something like volatility? How the mkt reacts to news? How the mkt performs relative to another mkt (or a stock to its parent index)? Whether it leads/lags? How it behaves at s/r?

Thanks,
Harold
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Look at driving...

Do you go around analyzing every bit of event occurring around you? Or do you gradually eliminating reactive routines and events to your feel?

Not the same but similar. Here's an example with chart reading:

Newbie chart reading: This is a head-and-shoulder... neckline is xxxx so I should wait till it hits it and the support shoulder price is yyyy... .... .... .... (and on and on and on)

Competent chart reading: This is a top, I'll buy when it reacts at xxxxx and yyyyy.

Next level: I'll buy later.

Next level after that: ... ??? nothing...

Next level after all that...: *click*
 
TSG,

Thanks for your comments. Not to seem thick, but your chart-reading example lost me. (Not the driving analogy, that was spot-on: "...eliminating reactive routines and events to your feel?" Well put. Indeed, a big part of learning is ultimately a process of elimination, of paring down available info to what is important specifically to your needs.) But I'm confused w/the latter part of your msg, I know you're being sarcastic, but the whole "buying at a top" as competent chart-reading, I'm missing something, the irony, whatever... Did you mean "selling at a top"?

H
 
Quote from hcour:

TSG,

Thanks for your comments. Not to seem thick, but your chart-reading example lost me. (Not the driving analogy, that was spot-on: "...eliminating reactive routines and events to your feel?" Well put. Indeed, a big part of learning is ultimately a process of elimination, of paring down available info to what is important specifically to your needs.) But I'm confused w/the latter part of your msg, I know you're being sarcastic, but the whole "buying at a top" as competent chart-reading, I'm missing something, the irony, whatever... Did you mean "selling at a top"?

H
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I am not sarcastic.

Re-read... I didn't write buy at top.

The example is for "chart reading".
 
Quote from cashmoney69:

Fader

I guess your right. I should at least wait till I get ELITE, that way i can get L2 also to get a better sense of what's going on. As far as indicators go, CMF and MACD seem to be a good combo.

What indicators do you use Fader?

- nathan
More...

Opening Range and Pivots.

Read The Logical Trader by Marc Fisher.
 
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