trading without charts...suicide?

rm, i disagree, but that's ok.

as long as TA works for me, i will continue to believe in it.

i find generally that models that are actually accurate models of reality have two properties, in general

1) predictive properties (and TA has this. by using TA, i am making much more money than i would make from random entries (and i have statistically tested this))
2) a reason for why they work

i find TA has both

fwiw, i find it a bit hard to believe that you were an actual successful trader and do not believe in RESISTANCE levels.

i can understand why somebody could doubt a lot of TA thangs (i do myself) but not something like support and resistance

that is just so self-obvious to me.

and if u are paying attention to price action, you are using TA.

do u pay any attention to order flow when trading?
 
Quote from ralgeo:

I am a retired member of the AMEX. I was the first Options Principal Member to sign the Constitution of the AMEX back in 1978.

After almost 30 years as a principal trader without clients, I have to say that charts were not that useful. I was always a position player and NEVER thought "cost basis". I was basically a seller of volatility and never very opinionated. Charts often only reinforce what the market is telling you. They might help in bottom picking or being more courageous in shorting at what seems to be tops, but over time I found profits to come from disciplined selling of premium with long "wings" to stop 9/11 type events.

I have seen a lot of chart toters on the floor get carried off broke!
More...

I was trading in the Stone Age at the Exchange at Rockwell City, together with Fred Flinstones. Nobody had a computer, we all traded with dinoputers, they werre solid as a rock. hose who had no dinoputer were carried away broke.

In the Middle Ages the family Rothschild got very rich because they were the first who got the outcome of the war between England and France. They used a dove, spread the opposite news and bought huge amounts of stocks almost for free. When the others learned the news was false markets rose again and the Rothschild's were rich.

What i want to say is that exchanges and markets are evoluating at high speed. Even the last 10 years things changed so fast that you cannot compare your 30 years of experience with what happens now. Look at the big funds, in the 80's they could make huge returns, nowadays it seems to be almost impossible to repeat that.

What was the importance of the pit 20 years ago compared to today?
 
i have met a # of traders. traders think (primarily) in terms of order flow. but they do establish support and resistance in their heads.

i have learned this FROM a floor trader, and from a floor trader who is now a screen trader. the latter still uses an audio pit feed for the S&P contract (which i have found helpful) and watches the tape. he uses charts too.

but a floor trader is still thinking in terms of support and resistance, which is TA. and price/order flow - which is TA.

charts are not necessary for TA.

furthermore, as a i said - floor traders invented the formula for floor trader pivots. floor traders pivots are support.resistance levels. nothing more.
 
Well, i myself am fairly new and having been dabbling around in the system spreeded around the internet. It uses EMA's and PAR on 15 to hourly charts.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it fails miserably using me alot of play money and pips. However, random as market conditions are. Fullfilling, or non fullfilling the pattern.

This guy raises some interesting discussion about charts and technical student, overall. He even posts is historial backtesting statements off of a link threw his webpage.

The results speak for themselves, eventhou i've been told clinic historical data, backtests and non current related data can be 100% trusted, nor confirmed to carry current market conditions.

Here's what he had to say, he totally puts down the use of indicators and charts, saying they are useless and actually "cause you to miss market" movement rather than profit,

here's the link:

http://www.moneytec.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15580&page=30&pp=8

Look for "Dr.Zogg"

He reportedly and continues to make over 500 PIPS, on a bad day, nothing falling underneath 100. He's abit arrogant for my tastes, but. He seems to reply alot on math and probability on risk manage. Which, i think is an essential, but isn't the only reliable thing needed to trade, just one of the rules.

Eitherway, he's making big profit without charts, or indicators, fundamentals he doesn't mention, or am i an even bigger newbie for asking. Should he?
 
When I travel....I take my laptop....I trade the e-mini Futures without charts. I usually go to a Starbucks….or sometimes from the hotel room….and trade. I don’t use charts because there is not enough room on my monitor for charts and my trading program.

I am a Scalper….and I use a program called J-Trader. J-Trader has a feature called the Accumulated Depth of Market….for Bid and Offer, Whenever I see the ACV on one side get at least a 2 to 1 spread over the other….I go in for a scalp trade….usually 2 ticks with 4 contracts. Sometimes 1 tick….if the market is slow. Trading like this is really a Price Action style of trading.

I am not talking about the Inside Bid and Offer….that would be suicide….but the Total ACV for all price levels. It is too easy to get Faked Out with the Inside Bid and Offer. You can still get Faked….with the Total ACV….but not very often.

At my office….I have two large LCD monitors….one a 21”….and a desktop computer. I have my charts on the big monitor….and my trading program on my laptop. What is funny though….is I still Scalp….still look at the ACV….but I also look at my charts. I trade the same way….try for 2 ticks with 4 contracts….but now I also have my “security blanket”….my charts. Do I need the charts….not really….I do just as well without them….but….I have them available to look at. All charts do is add another layer….something else to think about….and probably slows my reaction time.

The main thing with the charts….it helps me if I decide to follow a Trend condition….helps me identify when Prices are about to Range….etc.

So….I don’t really need charts….but I do like them....and they do have a purpose. Charts are like "big people" security blankets....haha

Good trading to all.

VSTscalper
 
have to agree that charts are more or less useless when tradin' futs. also on stocks most of da time they don't help much either in aidin' me to make better decisions, if somethin' most of da time it is exactly da contrary.... what I see in charts sure I can see it in da price as it moves without all da deceptive patterns present on fractals.
 
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