trading without any indicators for daytrading?

Quote from Lucrum:

Yes.

Simplistic indicator analogy, your standing on the street corner and two cars go by from left to right, one faster than the other. Do I need an "indicator" (radar gun) to tell which one is going faster, or in which general direction? Nope, I do need a radar gun or stop watch and a compass ("indicators") to tell HOW much faster one is over the other, the exact speeds of each and the exact direction.

The vast majority of readily available "indicators" don't indicate anything an experienced market observer can't already see on a naked chart. They simply put a number or value on it, but that's about it.

IOW do I need an indicator to tell me prices are rising, falling or flat? Do I need an indicator to tell me prices are moving steeply,shallow or flat? Do I need an indicator to tell me prices are rapidly gyrating all over the place?

I only need an "indicator" if I want to put some sort of a value or number on what really should be obvious otherwise. Almost all indicators only indicate what has already happened, NOT what is going to happen. A simple price chart also tells me what has already happened, without all the clutter.
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Good explanation, Lucrum. Thanks.

Please help with this ......

(1) Price making higher sub-waves but Macd is not, suggesting to me ( a new, only 3 realmoney trades thus far wannabe trader) some sort of consolidation which could not be gleaned from pure pice action alone. I see this often enough with triangles.

(2) At price tops, when viewed in hindsight, there is a Macd divergence but often pure Price does not give any clues as to weakening - slope remains approx. same, the bars themselves look just as strong as before. Yet, Macd warned of waning power.

Appreciate your help, thanks

DB
 
"An indicator is more than just a value, its a visual representation of the market displayed in a particulare perspective. " - Cashmoney69 :)

* Yes the market can be flat, but if volume is steadly rising or falling and is NOT reflected in the price, how would you know a major move is about to happen? And dont say the tape, im talking JUST by looking at the charts......you would have no clue

* I also like the 100 and 200 sma as I feel they have some type of significant importance, but again, how would you know the market is above or below these averages without having them up?

* MACD histogram I believe is good for spotting shifts in momentum in the market when the value crosses above or below 0 line. Again, just from looking at price, you cant tell.

here is a good example: (some facts are made-up)

Your at an empty parking lot with a friend who just bought a brand new Shelby GT 500. You love the car so much, you ask your friend if he wouldn't mind doing some doughnuts , burn-outs, etc... "No prob" he says, and lays down a strip of rubber about 20ft long as his car rockets to 0-60 in 3 seconds, then difts around some metal light posts with ease. In total amazement, and jeliousy, you drive down to your local ford dealership and buy your very own GT 500, but as soon as you sit down in your new ride, you start to notice some problems right away.

1. your ass is a little to big for the racing seats
2. the gas mileage is only 1/3 that from your last car
3. the interior is nothing more than cheap shiny plastic
4. you suck at driving a manual

suddenly the car that you loved so much is becoming a burden as the seat is cramped, the car has to stop at every other gas station, and the cheap parts are having problems, and your clutch is burned out.

HAD you used some "indicators" maybe you wouldnt have bought the car

* indicator 1 --> Consumer review --> read what other buys think about the car and weigh the pros and cons
* indicator 2 --> comfort level --> you never test drove the car to see if you liked it, if you did so, he would have noticed the shabby interior and the fact the inside is cramped.


The two indicators you CANT possibly see just from looking at the car alone, however they can assist you in knowing whether you should buy the car or not.

CM

case solved
 
I was simplifying things today and then I saw this thread... I can make a living trading one YM contract with just volume for an indicator...

Anybody that doesn't believe me can go eat worms.....
 
Quote from mounafia:

I am slowly giving up on all indicators to keep only support and resistance to do my day trading (and a Bollinger band for the volatility).

what are your thoughts?

Am I going in the good direction?
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I also am currently testing Algos which don't use indicators.

Here is some graphic log of fully automated trades:
<a href="http://www.datatime.eu/public/gbot/2009Oct14/default.htm" target="_blank"> No indicators </a>

[I have not finished it yet: adding the component to "ride the rallies". Hard work.]

I have given up long time ago believing in indicators... (flames expected)


Tom
 
indicators help by crunching the numerical representations shown on charts that represent price action to known trends that have proven useful in trading.

Ichimoku was able to track rice production and sales trends before the turn of the century in Japan. We have both Ichimoku charts and Candlestick analysis trends.

Moving average of the accumulation or depreciation (macd) was as unique when created and used initially and had real promise, especially when the other traders were still doing hand held calculations.

this essentially addresses two issues:

1) usage of
2) relative advantage of

one can do all the math in one's mind, and get exhausted or distracted by as simple as a coffee break and loose track of what's happened.

one can gain relative advantage over other traders by being an early adopter of whatever new method produces any advantage over others, until its countered by dynamic market responses (i.e. competitive advantage being cancelled)

so, running charts without vs. running charts with,

hmmm, let your ROI decide
 
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