Trading with a Stop Loss in the Futures Market is for Losers
- Thread starter emg
- Start date
@K-Pia
no, you surely are not a loser in any dept nor in my book.
on the contrary, you are dynamics. staying profitable is not
an easy endeavour for anyone. the same profitable setups which
were profitable in the morning session, might just brought you bewilderment one
after another in the afternoon session.... LOL
btw, did u ever see emg trade anything at all.... ; live or simm,
any where, here or there or wherever....with all due respect?
but emg was surely prolific in verbiage stating the same
year in and year out.... even in leap year LOL?
just verbiage mind you, without any substantiation of any substance to date.
but then again, emg has been on board a long long long time and have been
trading even longer than that in fact.... again with all due respect.
profitable trading emg and wish you the best trading in 2016 as well, K?
no, you surely are not a loser in any dept nor in my book.
on the contrary, you are dynamics. staying profitable is not
an easy endeavour for anyone. the same profitable setups which
were profitable in the morning session, might just brought you bewilderment one
after another in the afternoon session.... LOL
btw, did u ever see emg trade anything at all.... ; live or simm,
any where, here or there or wherever....with all due respect?
but emg was surely prolific in verbiage stating the same
year in and year out.... even in leap year LOL?
just verbiage mind you, without any substantiation of any substance to date.
but then again, emg has been on board a long long long time and have been
trading even longer than that in fact.... again with all due respect.
profitable trading emg and wish you the best trading in 2016 as well, K?
The reason why 1 contract = $100,000 is to "control risks."
Here is my perfect example:
http://www.elitetrader.com/et/index.php?threads/emg-brewery-and-pizzeria.294271/page-128
I am currrently short 1960.50. eMini is currently at 1996.00. So, I am down $443.75 per contract per $100,000. O wow, big deal. Do i need to place stop orders? Hell no, in fact, i plan to add at 2011.00 per contract per $100,000.
Do i need to add to average up/down every 1 point or 2 points or 10 points? No, because 1 contract per $100,000.
Trading in the future market is high risk because high leverage => high margin = high volatility. I cannot foresee how small traders can win daytrading or trading in futures market with little or as low as $500 in their account. Even those who have $10K or $50K in the account will end up losing.
My big question to small traders is , what do you know about risk/reward with only as little as or as low as $500 in the account or $50K? Do you believe placing stops will give you "control risks." If that is true, why keep reloading account
place stop orders will get u to reload your accounts
You present yourself as ET's rugged individualist by denying the value of stop losses. Are you heroic or perhaps just afraid of leverage? So in the scenario you noted, when you lose several ES points, "big deal." In fact, that's when you're going to add to your position, right? Why? Because the market is telling you you're on the right track? Because you know better than the market where it is going despite having lost several points already?The reason why 1 contract = $100,000 is to "control risks."
Here is my perfect example:
http://www.elitetrader.com/et/index.php?threads/emg-brewery-and-pizzeria.294271/page-128
I am currrently short 1960.50. eMini is currently at 1996.00. So, I am down $443.75 per contract per $100,000. O wow, big deal. Do i need to place stop orders? Hell no, in fact, i plan to add at 2011.00 per contract per $100,000.
Do i need to add to average up/down every 1 point or 2 points or 10 points? No, because 1 contract per $100,000.
Trading in the future market is high risk because high leverage => high margin = high volatility. I cannot foresee how small traders can win daytrading or trading in futures market with little or as low as $500 in their account. Even those who have $10K or $50K in the account will end up losing.
My big question to small traders is , what do you know about risk/reward with only as little as or as low as $500 in the account or $50K? Do you believe placing stops will give you "control risks." If that is true, why keep reloading account
place stop orders will get u to reload your accounts
Oh, and when you say "big deal" to a several point loss, I suppose I could say the same to a several point gain then. If you're not at least looking for asymmetric trades, then you're just jumping in the water with your eyes closed and hoping for the best.
Perhaps a better and more descriptive title to your thread would be that you are afraid of leverage because of your poor reading and timing of the market, and that stop losses painfully bring it home to you. Apart from that, could it also be that you have yet to effectively calibrate a stop loss?
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You can be creative with your stops. You can have a max risk per trade and an average risk per trade. Lets say your directional play is pretty solid, but you are weary of noise or certain volatility. Lets say you will not assume more than 1% risk on each trade. Thats your max risk but not the average risk . lets say you used to enter with 6 contracts in es. With 5 point stop. You risk 1500$ before spread+ comission. How if instead. We enter 3 contracts and 3 more after 4 points and a final stop at 8 points from initial entry. Thats 1600$ max for added 3 point play room for randomness in your timeframe. The function is the same as hedging. Reducing your average risk while reducing your profit potential. I personally think that markets are indeed random but they develop patterns just like in nature, what we usually have trouble with is losing on good trades because of noise and not because we were directionally wrong. When you put your money on a direction and do not have a stop, you internally do not believe enough in the accuracy of your entry, thus noise. But noise has a statistical threshold, and if you can go beyond it through some kind of a hedge, it is quite alright. having an initial wide mental stop and then tightening it is also a form of hedge, maybe one can call it temporal hedge. In the end everyone is hedging in the face of the unknown but still there needs to be a stop loss somewhere. Lets say I want to get married, and Iam afraid of getting divorced of half of my assets. I can hedge, by putting the house in my mother's name or I can put a stop, making her sign a prenup 
@stonefreetall
sound pretty good a hedging kind of sort.
can you also show us, how you put what you
described on your trading screen on real time,
or even simm, will be much appreciated.
just a couple of trade for size will suffice.
thx much.
nakachalet@gmail.com
sound pretty good a hedging kind of sort.
can you also show us, how you put what you
described on your trading screen on real time,
or even simm, will be much appreciated.
just a couple of trade for size will suffice.
thx much.
nakachalet@gmail.com
Stop runs on the ES have been increasing lately, perhaps due to HFT establishing dominance in price action., I've seen lower lows recently resulting in higher highs at a much higher rate than PA gurus would have us believe.