Some explanations, with real applications, are in this ET thread ("trading algorithmically ... without stops ... real $$$"), if you are interested:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3921833#post3921833
Trading with a Stop Loss in the Futures Market is for Losers
- Thread starter emg
- Start date
Some explanations, with real applications, are in this ET thread ("trading algorithmically ... without stops ... real $$$"), if you are interested:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3921833#post3921833
trading future is stupid in the first place.
only you have fast fingers and sound intuitives.
small retail traders should never touch futures.
1. you can not control loss: the market most time is just coin-flipping
2. you can not afford to lose: 2%move, you are gone, you cannot hold!if you donot cut,you own the brokeage, they will do the job for you. you donate money to the market since the market hits your marginre quirement quickly,easily shake you to cut loss blindly . when you look back,how many times after you cut,the market comes in your favor. everyone has common sense. just the timing & volatility.
no stop loss is suicide trading in future. but with stop loss,you are doomed too. if you made some, hit and run. that is what I did.
I hate stop loss. stop loss makes me lose money, and let me negatively or passively trade, act slowly,too mechically . I like intuitive trading. results must be under my control.
I know we human beings have an ultimate weakness. when you should get out, you hold; when you should get in, you get out; when you should wait, you hurry;....why? people can not follow too dynamic markets. when you see the market is in your favor, you will change your intial thoughts, for example, plan to close out a position, but you do not. then next day the market goes way unexpected, you get hammered.
plus there are other distractions,for example,you work at home, yourspouse or your kids may inrupt you,put you in a "forget about stop loss" situation.or sudden totally unexpected things, like DOWN drop 3000points in five minutes, you are forced to wipe your asshole, or market halted without anypre-caution. you must consider NAUGHTY market behaviors. not regular behaviors.
that is why I just trade options. in above case, I just lost the primum, nothing else.notlike future, if I made a small mistake (plan to close out before session end, but I did not), next day I lose far more than I can afford.
I know I may make those little mistakes, but it is very deadly.
happy trading.
only you have fast fingers and sound intuitives.
small retail traders should never touch futures.
1. you can not control loss: the market most time is just coin-flipping
2. you can not afford to lose: 2%move, you are gone, you cannot hold!if you donot cut,you own the brokeage, they will do the job for you. you donate money to the market since the market hits your marginre quirement quickly,easily shake you to cut loss blindly . when you look back,how many times after you cut,the market comes in your favor. everyone has common sense. just the timing & volatility.
no stop loss is suicide trading in future. but with stop loss,you are doomed too. if you made some, hit and run. that is what I did.
I hate stop loss. stop loss makes me lose money, and let me negatively or passively trade, act slowly,too mechically . I like intuitive trading. results must be under my control.
I know we human beings have an ultimate weakness. when you should get out, you hold; when you should get in, you get out; when you should wait, you hurry;....why? people can not follow too dynamic markets. when you see the market is in your favor, you will change your intial thoughts, for example, plan to close out a position, but you do not. then next day the market goes way unexpected, you get hammered.
plus there are other distractions,for example,you work at home, yourspouse or your kids may inrupt you,put you in a "forget about stop loss" situation.or sudden totally unexpected things, like DOWN drop 3000points in five minutes, you are forced to wipe your asshole, or market halted without anypre-caution. you must consider NAUGHTY market behaviors. not regular behaviors.
that is why I just trade options. in above case, I just lost the primum, nothing else.notlike future, if I made a small mistake (plan to close out before session end, but I did not), next day I lose far more than I can afford.
I know I may make those little mistakes, but it is very deadly.
happy trading.
5k is plenty to trade with if you are trading 1 contract and having a 20 point stop.
How dare you big money guys try to scare smaller accounts out by saying we need to have 100k in the account.
Must be nice to have too much money.
The key is to place a proper trade to begin with and not have to average down.
How dare you big money guys try to scare smaller accounts out by saying we need to have 100k in the account.
Must be nice to have too much money.
The key is to place a proper trade to begin with and not have to average down.
Maybe for the Eurodollar. If you're talking ES or 6E or CL take another bong hit - first things first, no one would clear you to begin with.
Hit a bong, create a ET username, post ......that is the order in which some of these messages happen here at ET
The problem with FX and Indices is that most traders are trading on a tiny movements all day long "percentage wise" , a 4 points move in the ES is just around 0.22% and a 20 points move in the Euro = 0.15% , lets face it thats a really small move , its like trading MSFT with 5-8 cents SL ! Thats noise , even if it isnt random thats "unpredictable" , can you imagine how many traders and price engines and algos are competing in this area ?
Not to mention the leverage offered on these markets , plus the hype ... etc its a formula for disaster for most traders , not to forget that the spread and costs effect here is huge cuz its a big portion of the targeted move , ie: If you trade the ES with a 4 points SL your costs is around 0.3/4 = 7.5% , and if you trade the Euro with a 20 pip SL your costs are around = 2/20 = 10% , now if the ES moved 4 points in your favor you are up 3.7 and if it moved 4 points against you you are down 4.3 , lol , and if the Euro moved 20 points in your favor you are up 18 pips and if it moved 20 pips against you you are down 22 pips , i don't see how you are going to make money that way .
Not to mention the leverage offered on these markets , plus the hype ... etc its a formula for disaster for most traders , not to forget that the spread and costs effect here is huge cuz its a big portion of the targeted move , ie: If you trade the ES with a 4 points SL your costs is around 0.3/4 = 7.5% , and if you trade the Euro with a 20 pip SL your costs are around = 2/20 = 10% , now if the ES moved 4 points in your favor you are up 3.7 and if it moved 4 points against you you are down 4.3 , lol , and if the Euro moved 20 points in your favor you are up 18 pips and if it moved 20 pips against you you are down 22 pips , i don't see how you are going to make money that way .
Over at Volente's, the OP has demonstrated this fall how to trade futures without a stop loss:
Just "exit" and "roll"
and it was closed profitable yesterday once again proving the point
