Trading with a Stop Loss in the Futures Market is for Losers

fullautotrading · May 15, 2013

Quote from BlueTurtle:

I've been telling you clowns to get massively long for soo long now!!!!

Of course you should always be long 10 ES, NO STOP!!!!

The trend is soo obvious, why get stopped out!!!!

Now that it is over, it is obvious

QuantWizard · May 15, 2013

Quote from emg:

HFTs are stopping out small traders again. those that use stops will lose

I use stops, I'm small, but still made $170 today - how come???

QuantWizard · May 15, 2013

Quote from emg:

No doubt in my mind HFTs are stiill stopping out small traders in the es. This is what u get for placing stops

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busin...-data-leak-20130424,0,4124230.story?track=rss

Price action and TA methods are encouraging small traders to place stops and trade as little as $5000. In other word, they brain draining small traders, while the HFTs, higher educated traders easily profiting over small traders expense.

"Chickens (small traders) are coming home to roost"

Minimum to trade in the es $500,000. 1 contract equal $100,000

Ever thought about forming an own opinion about anything?

halfwaythere · May 17, 2013

Market can be extremely manipulated. Searching and hunting stops.

Just today I had the price follow up my stop each time i moved it for 15 minutes. Price NEVER moves the way it did, it made NO sense in this history of 4 years I've been trading futures. Quite obvious - why even play a rigged game.

I knew price would come crashing down ANY second.

The second it hit my stop, the price came crashing down in my direction. Fucking bullshit really.

I'm done with stops. I'll have a mental 3pt stop from now on, because the hunters hunt. I'll blow out this account soon and thats that. hft ruined trading.

bitch ass whores. bout to throw in this towel and go back to pepsi truck driving, steady pay less stress.

fullautotrading · May 17, 2013

Quote from halfwaythere:

Market can be extremely manipulated. Searching and hunting stops.

...
bitch ass whores. bout to throw in this towel and go back to pepsi truck driving, steady pay less stress.

You got it. MMs are making their profits, given the the incoming order flow.

They would screw most they can, statistically speaking. And if the "real" liquidity is scarce (apart the fake transactions to create the feeling of liquidity), there is really no game.

The entry / take profit / take loss trading scheme is simply a slot machine, which rapidly sucks all the coins you put in it.

A "grand scheme" is needed to make $$$... a totally different approach ...

fullautotrading · May 17, 2013

Quote from bau250:

So what's your "grand scheme"?

My grand scheme is explained here on <a href="http://www.datatime.eu/public/gbot/strategies.htm">this page</a>, and i also have a few test journals here on ET, that you can browse.

Example: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3517512

However, being "grand", actually it requires some very decent capital.

[ In general, for small capital, I just suggest to enjoy the $$$ elsewhere ;-)) it's the best thing to do! ]

bau250 · May 17, 2013

Quote from fullautotrading:

My grand scheme is explained here on <a href="http://www.datatime.eu/public/gbot/strategies.htm">this page</a>, and i also have a few test journals here on ET, that you can browse.

Example: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3517512

However, being "grand", actually it requires some very decent capital.

[ In general, for small capital, I just suggest to enjoy it $$$ elsewhere ;-)) it's the best thing to do! ]

MM as in money managers OR market makers?

fullautotrading · May 17, 2013

Quote from bau250:

MM as in money managers OR market makers?

yep, the latter.

dealmaker · May 17, 2013

Quote from emg:

Those (SMALL TRADERS) that trade with stop in the futures/commodity market are doomed to fail. I am 99.99% sure, u will lose indefinitely.

Think about it small traders, what is the main reason for the loss or blowing your account? Your stop orders.

Of course, small traders need to place stop due to small RISK capital in the account ($5K. $20K, $50K). Small Traders are taught by 3rd party educational and system vendors to place stop to manage risk and yet they represent more than 90% of small trader lose!! They just lose!!

Force trading, overleverage (trading with more cars) with less capital in the account would make sense to place stop and are doomed. 99.99% u will get stopped out.

Adding to average down is risky if one knows how to do it. Most SMALL TRADERS add to average down/up by every tick or point are doomed to fail and will blow their tiny account ($5K, $10K, $20K, 50K) in no time. THEY WILL FAIL!

Solution:

with $100K minimum in the account and begin to trade 1 car and average down/up 15-50pts against u will minimize risk. For example:

short 1325.00 emini sp 500 on 1 car.

es went against you 20pts. your drawdown is $1000 on $100K account. Is that a lot of heat? U are down only 1% of your account. Is that a lot of heat?

U will go ahead and add and your average price will be 3pts away from the market price. From there u take small profit or loss.

$100K account is equal to $5000 minimum standard to open a futures account and begin trading with 1 car

those that do not have that kind of money should either join the house or should not be trading futures market at all

According to the CFTC:

Commodity Futures Trading Commission Futures and Options trading has large potential rewards, but also large potential risk. You must be aware of the risks and be willing to accept them in order to invest in the futures and options markets.

The risk of loss in trading commodities can be substantial. You should therefore carefully consider whether such trading is suitable for you in light of your financial condition.

Remember SMALL TRADERS:

More than 90% of small traders lose. They just lose!!!!

I am looking for the best answers Bring them up!

With so many computer programs in the markets, putting actual stops is asking for trouble i.e. they too know where the most likely places for the stops are, combat that with setting alerts rather than stops.

QuantWizard · May 17, 2013

Quote from dealmaker:

With so many computer programs in the markets, putting actual stops is asking for trouble i.e. they too know where the most likely places for the stops are, combat that with setting alerts rather than stops.

Well, I feel no pity for traders that put absolute stop losses instead of relative ones, as these are surely gonna be eaten by almost equally simple predatory traders.