Trading with a Stop Loss in the Futures Market is for Losers
- Thread starter emg
- Start date
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QUOTING EMG from his own reference 10-16-12 01:30 AM
Trading is rocket science and the requirement is advanced math. its all about solving numbers (formula). subscribing signal call services or educational vendors are for loooooosers.
In addition, those use TA are losers as well. u have to be a rocket scientist to become a successful trader. I don't see MIT blackjack team subscribing calling signal service. MIT blackjack team is not DUMB
Higher Education is the key to become a successful trader.
Higher Education. EMG
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are you serious, my friend?
you are speaking of sound mind and sound body and sound personal judgment?
or r u speaking with injurious personal vengeance? L O L
As for Futures Trading not being for people with small accounts, I'm inclined to agree. BUT, that's exactly what I did. I had enough money to buy one contract of the commodity I wanted to trade. I'd been monitoring it for a week while it was in a trading range and was anticipating a huge breakout. Luckily, I was right and I quadrupled what I invested. After that, I started scalping the market for 10-point moves intraday a few times a week to slowly build up my capital. But for the most part, I still wait for a short term trend to emerge.
Keep in mind, that I could have easily been on the other side of that trade. If I had to do it again, I probably wouldn't have started off that way. But luckily for me, I was able to sit on my hands until something was happening.
Keep in mind, that I could have easily been on the other side of that trade. If I had to do it again, I probably wouldn't have started off that way. But luckily for me, I was able to sit on my hands until something was happening.
congrats
you are truly an exception indeed.
how many more are out there who are in similar category?
may you prosper well and keep up with the profitability and consistency.... bravo
I would have to agree with EMG to a point. Trading does require an understanding of advanced mathematics and probability but it's definitely not rocket science. In fact, I once ran into a guy who wanted to make it as a trader who was, in fact, a rocket scientist who worked for a contractor who worked for NASA. He eventually gave up and stuck with what he was good at -- rocket science.
Here's the lo-down on trading. It's both an art and a science. If you think about it the futures market is nothing more than data. I can construct a fairly complex simulation and the output would look strikingly similar to the market. For that reason, it's my belief that you do need to have an understanding of advanced math to be successful. That being said, there is also that "just knowing" element to trading. Watching and understanding the behavior of price action is by far my most widely used tool.
Here's the lo-down on trading. It's both an art and a science. If you think about it the futures market is nothing more than data. I can construct a fairly complex simulation and the output would look strikingly similar to the market. For that reason, it's my belief that you do need to have an understanding of advanced math to be successful. That being said, there is also that "just knowing" element to trading. Watching and understanding the behavior of price action is by far my most widely used tool.
Sheeeee-it, Luciano, we are such fools!
These damned Market Wizards were just trying to trap us into giving them their money. And to think they were all in collusion, whispering amongst themselves and agreeing to provide the same answers to mislead us!
Michael Marcus:
Q. Do you always pick a point where you will get out before you get in?
A. Yes, I have always done that. You have to.
Q. I would imagine in your case you canât actually put a stop in because your orders are too large.
A. Yes, but my broker can hold it.
Bruce Kovner:
âWhenever I enter a position, I have a predetermined stop. That is the only way I can sleep. I know where Iâm getting out before I get in.â
Richard Dennis
Q. Do you always define your maximum risk point when you get into a trade?
A. You should always have a worst case point. The only choice should be to get out quicker.
Paul Tudor Jones:
Q. Do you always know where you are getting out before you put a trade on?
A. I have a mental stop. If it hits that number, I am out no matter what.
Gary Bielfeldt:
Q. How much risk did you allow when putting on a trade?
A. Generally anywhere from ½ to 1 ½ points.
Q. So if you tried to pick a spot that looked good and it didnât work, you would bail out and try again at another spot?
A. Right.
Ed Seykota:
Q. Do you decide where you are getting out before you get in on a trade?
A. I set protective stops at the same time I enter a trade.
Larry Hite:
Q. What makes Mint different? How have you been able to achieve return/risk ratios far above the industry average?
A. So the very first rule we live by at Mint is: Never risk more than 1 percent of total equity on any trade.
David Ryan:
Q. Since you use an extremely rigorous selection process, do you have a high percentage of winners in your stock picks?
A. No, only about 50/50, because I cut the losers very quickly. The maximum loss I allow is 7 percent, and usually I am out of a losing stock a lot quicker.
Marty Schwartz:
Q. From time to time, you have alluded to your trading rules. Can you list them?
A. That brings me to my next rule: Before taking a position, always know the amount you are willing to lose. Know your âuncle pointâ and honor it.
Mark Weinstein:
Q. Any final advice you have for a beginning trader?
A. You have to learn how to lose; it is more important than learning how to win. Limit losses quickly.
Tom Baldwin:
Q. Do you have to be somewhat of an egomaniac to be a good trader?
A. Actually, the best traders have no ego. You cannot let ego get in the way of a trade that is a loser; you have to swallow your pride and get out.
Tony Saliba:
Q. Do you always know the maximum risk in a position that you hold?
A. Yesâ¦no matter what happens, I know my worst case. My loss is always limited.
Thank our lucky stars for Surf and emg to set us straight
I guess it depends on your trading style. If you are a day trader, scalper... need to be flat at the end of the day, how else would you do it?
How is a stop not fixed? Fixed as in, here is my line in the sand. If you move it to give yourself more wiggle room than it's not really a stop.
The inference of the no stop argument is that it goes hand in hand with I know what the market will do, therefore I do not need a stop.
A friend back in the dot com bubble had 1 of the internet flyers above $200.00 she rode it down to the teens, because every down move was just a pullback.
Bottom line if your trading works for you with out using stops that's all that matters.
I won't put on a trade without one.
stops. hmmm....it depends.
I risked $60,000 on a stock trade and this was money I could afford to lose (meaning, I would not lose the house). Yes, this was a long-term investment, meaning from $25 it either went up a lot or down towards zero. I would have been stopped out 100 times as it traded as low as 15, then eventually selling near 65.
futures, on the other hand, need stops if your account is very small. but you should not be trading with a small account. $50k minimum for futures, and then if you do more than 5 lots you likely need some sort of exit strategy during the day. stops are for people who can't hold overnight, and they shouldn't be trading anyhow. that's gambling. so i say trade 5 lots on 50k and if you are down $3000 then consider exiting before the close. but if you are taking gains of only $500 and $1000, then you will lose it all anyhow. That is for another thread.
if you are always worried about risk, you are likely gambling.
I risked $60,000 on a stock trade and this was money I could afford to lose (meaning, I would not lose the house). Yes, this was a long-term investment, meaning from $25 it either went up a lot or down towards zero. I would have been stopped out 100 times as it traded as low as 15, then eventually selling near 65.
futures, on the other hand, need stops if your account is very small. but you should not be trading with a small account. $50k minimum for futures, and then if you do more than 5 lots you likely need some sort of exit strategy during the day. stops are for people who can't hold overnight, and they shouldn't be trading anyhow. that's gambling. so i say trade 5 lots on 50k and if you are down $3000 then consider exiting before the close. but if you are taking gains of only $500 and $1000, then you will lose it all anyhow. That is for another thread.
if you are always worried about risk, you are likely gambling.