Trading with a Stop Loss in the Futures Market is for Losers
- Thread starter emg
- Start date
I never understood why people gave emg such a hard time around these boards til I read this thread. Funny shit...
Interesting to read all the personal choices.
I suppose it's a matter of style.
I suppose it's a matter of style.
Yes, I do, but they usually blow trades far in my direction.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3454319#post3454319
HFT algos are good for a nimble trader, because they trade in a much more predictable way than humans do.
Here is another interesting article on HFT:
http://www.thetexanonline.com/2011/05/08/why-play-a-losing-game-high-frequency-trading/
More than anything, speed is what makes this method work: firms make the trades in microseconds (one-millionth of a second). High-frequency tradersâ search for short-lived market âinefficienciesâ to profit from is not particularly lucrative; many times the quick gains are just mere pennies, but with so many trades being made, the profits rapidly add up.
HFTs are stop hunters. HFT will below your stops away. Placing stop orders are for losers!!
with all due respect, inasmuch as you have been preaching that PLACING STOPS ARE FOR LOSERS.... for quite a long time now.
and i do not have anything against you personally, nor do i know you personally, therefore there is no personal reason nor biz reason for me to attack you in any shape or form, correct--emg?
your statement above saying--HFTs are stop hunters....
is totally and absolutely erroneous. those hfts do not care on iota about yours or anybody else stops--wherever those stops are.... 100, 200 or 600+ usd stops.
if anyone's stop is on it order path, the stop wherever it is, will be taken out--NOT BECAUSE IT IS YOUR STOP, BUT BECAUSE YOUR STOP OR YOUR ORDER OR COUNTER ORDER IS IN ITS ORDER FLOW PATH....
which is as simple as that.... which i am certain at the back of your mind that is what you perceive and intend to say....
to summarily say that hft are stop hunters.... is really judgmental and substantially incorrect. hft really do not care one bit about your 600 usd stop, nor do hft care one bit about j and h doctrinal swing trade placing stoploss at 600 usd in the hope to capture the long or short overnight swing or 3,000+ usd profit.... which is practically 1 to 5 r/r ratio.
NOW.... coming back to something closer to home, emg. you have been repeatedly saying and quoting that.... stops are for losers.... for a long, long, long time now, isn't that correct, sir/madam?
i am certain there are numerous other readers and followers who would very much like to believe what you say and preach....
would it be convenient for you to show us, perhaps, your next monday and tuesday live trades, whatever markets or whatever products you trade live in.... THAT YOUR ORDERS ARE PLACED PRECISELY WITHOUT STOPS....
i will forever keep my mouth shut about your belief and your trading style--trading without stop; furthermore, you'll earn many other traders' highest esteem that emg really trades without stop of any kind, shape or form....
emg, i really do want to pay you that highest esteem therefore i am also amongst many others awaiting to see your live trades whatever they are on next monday and/or tuesday, whichever suits you best and is most convenient for you, K?
while we are awaiting to learn more from you;
there is a short video clip that seriously and comically deals with trading without stop, which many might already have seen it numerous times but just want to post it up one more time just for emg's pleasure and enjoyment. cheers everyone.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU1pD4xPe2M
With out the frontrunner HFT what would the mutual fund customer get filled out.?Quote from emg:
Here is another interesting article on HFT:
More than anything, speed is what makes this method work: firms make the trades in microseconds (one-millionth of a second). High-frequency tradersâ search for short-lived market âinefficienciesâ to profit from is not particularly lucrative; many times the quick gains are just mere pennies, but with so many trades being made, the profits rapidly add up.
This system does provide cheap liquidity when needed.
Every one in this thread is an idiot (Me being one of them now)
Those who think stop losses are for losers:
You are the biggest idiots in the bunch, Stops are insurance, an amount you agree to pay in the event that a trade goes farther against you than anticipated. Trading without a stop is like bending over in a prison shower and begging for natural selection.
Those who are in favor of stops:
You're all dumb for engaging the idiots who don't understand the idea of a stop, a hedge, or a spread.
The bottom line is that stops dont lose money they protect it. Making bad trades loses money. If you can trade without stops, and you have the knowledge and experience to know when to get out, more power to you, thats great, but you're running around with no failsafe. You might be profitable, but you're a loser. Also if you think you can't trade with stops, or are more profitable without them you're fooling yourself. You clearly lack any real understanding of financial instruments.
P.S. An excellent knowledge of math doesn't mean jack when it comes to trading. Banks and firms aren't hiring math and engineering majors to trade, they hire them to find new ways of reducing risk while increasing leverage. Which is a fools errand.
Those who think stop losses are for losers:
You are the biggest idiots in the bunch, Stops are insurance, an amount you agree to pay in the event that a trade goes farther against you than anticipated. Trading without a stop is like bending over in a prison shower and begging for natural selection.
Those who are in favor of stops:
You're all dumb for engaging the idiots who don't understand the idea of a stop, a hedge, or a spread.
The bottom line is that stops dont lose money they protect it. Making bad trades loses money. If you can trade without stops, and you have the knowledge and experience to know when to get out, more power to you, thats great, but you're running around with no failsafe. You might be profitable, but you're a loser. Also if you think you can't trade with stops, or are more profitable without them you're fooling yourself. You clearly lack any real understanding of financial instruments.
P.S. An excellent knowledge of math doesn't mean jack when it comes to trading. Banks and firms aren't hiring math and engineering majors to trade, they hire them to find new ways of reducing risk while increasing leverage. Which is a fools errand.
This has been said perhaps a million times and useless to repeat.
We already had neverending heated threads.
When some (savy) trader says he is not using stops, it <b>does NOT mean he is opening a trade a let it go until either profit or account blow up</b>, as perhaps some noob would imagine.
That would not make any sense.
Pleople are meaning they are using more effective form of risk control, which may include several other approaches. Such as strategy overlaying, range bounding, options, ... etc.
There is no absolutely no doubt that the naive approach, where one opens single trades with a take profit and a stop loss usually does not lead anywhere, especially when talking of automation.
T
when a trader uses other form of stop as you suggested....
they are still considered as stops.... whether you like it or not,
and whether you personally consider them as stops or not....
most of the readers here are beginning traders or traders learning to be more proficient, more profitable and more consistent etc....
there is really no need to confuse any of them any further....
it is much more direct and effective and honest and transparent to say that....
i go long on usd without stop, for sure....
but i also take a short on euro....
....just to ascertain that i will not be blown away.... if and when something happen or when i fall asleep in front of my eight monitors with 64 alarms going on at one time.... LOL
it is rather disgusting to mislead beginning traders, they have enough tough time just leaning to how to trade with one setup on one product....
shame on you guys....