Trading with a Stop Loss in the Futures Market is for Losers
- Thread starter emg
- Start date
LOL! emg
you are so right. Never get tired to repeat it !
stops are expression of naivety, which has high correlation with losses ... ;-))
Tom
tom dear
do you know what you are repeating, huh?
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stops are expression of naivety, which has high correlation with losses ...
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do you really comprehend its meaning?
do you really comprehend its implication?
i guess, if you really do understand the meaning of high correlation.... then you probably won't repeat what others before you kept on repeating.... right?
the perfect way to say this, is.... stops have a PERFECT correlationship with losses....
a trader without a stoploss is willing to wait until a margin call.... which is also perfectly and negatively correlated.... isn't that correct, tom?
most traders, small or large or positional, use stoploss because they are not gamblers who like to go all in and once and for all.... attitudinal life style....
but you and your groups are correct though, if you want to get rich quick you let your calculated trades run and run and run....
you really ought to give more credit to traders with stops, they are willing to give up small amount whenever the market shows they are on the wrong side....
and i can tell you from several personal experiences that as good as your setups were calculated and profitable yesterday, it just does not carry over to another day.... not at all.... however, the SAME setups would ONLY MOST PROBABLY ACCORDING TO PAST PERFORMANCES also be applicable today.... there is really no guarantee of any kind in trading, from one day to the next.
it is all probability....
definitely, it is exciting to trade without stop....
but by choice, like many profitable traders before me, i choose to trade with certain predicted and liveable assurance that....
tomorrow.... the market will still be here.... and i like to ascertain that i would be also here to trade for another day.... without a margin call....
in 1986, there were 6 margin calls on my bonds, the vp of a community bank took pity on me and increased my signature loan to 100k even.... with the admonition that if the broker called again, the bank would immediately take over the ownership of the envelope of vvsi ....
since then, i would submit i trade each market with respect and extreme caution.... NOT giving any trade plenty of room to go against my position at any given time....
some might call this type of trading--stupid, but whatever you might prefer to call.... or use in your own trade.... it is perfectly alright by me....
as far as i am concerned.... i sleep better, i trade better, without undue excitement, and more importantly, i can exercise my trading option to trade or not to trade today, or if i should take my great grand children out for a serving of ben and jerrry.... at the paragon....
trading without *systematic* trade-level stops has nothing to do with letting losses run until ruin.
i think i have now explained (and demonstrated practically) this concept so many times ...
see also for instance:
http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswer...ntID=51454694&trk=view_disc&ut=2Y633mSjCYF4U1
and my various journals. Complementing with option strategies is also fine ...
[I wasn't born with a preconcept against systematic trade-level stops. It's simply that i have done millions of rigorous experiments: they simply dont, and cannot, work. If i find out otherwise i will let you know...]
Tom
i think i have now explained (and demonstrated practically) this concept so many times ...
see also for instance:
http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswer...ntID=51454694&trk=view_disc&ut=2Y633mSjCYF4U1
and my various journals. Complementing with option strategies is also fine ...
[I wasn't born with a preconcept against systematic trade-level stops. It's simply that i have done millions of rigorous experiments: they simply dont, and cannot, work. If i find out otherwise i will let you know...]
Tom
hey tom
thx for the reference provided.
are you by any chance having any association or interest in the automated trading in the reference provided....
thx again for the ref.
Not sure about what is the question. What do you mean by having an association in a reference ?Quote from nakachalet:
hey tom
thx for the reference provided.
are you by any chance having any association or interest in the automated trading in the reference provided....
thx again for the ref.
[That is simply a discussion within a linkedin group, just like the discussions we make here on ET forums. I am clearly participating in the discussion ... ]
Tom
it is really simple, tom.
was just asking if you have any interest front or back or otherwise with the functions of this outfit, pls?
again it is not that earth shaking important, you have all the rights to do what you wish.
i won't like anyone to tell me what to do or not to do either. so i won't want to ask any more question, K?
happy trading, tom. the company you referred to is attached for your convenience below. do not need to respond at all, if you do not wish to, K?
tom;
perhaps you are not aware that the site you refer to, wants me to reveal my email password....
sorry, tom, i won't do it.
check it out yourself. also attached below for your easy reference.
Can't help but add on to this discussion.
IMO, in order to be a profitable trader, a person should be able to NOT USE STOPS.
But that statement itself is superficial and does not expand much. There is something deeper.
What I mean by this is that, a trader should be trading such a small size that he can withstand anywhere between 2X to 5X ATR of losses.
Of course, this must be coupled with a frame work of knowing when to exit positions.
This being said, I totally agree that either big accounts or small contracts i.e. mini-micro FX are required in order for people to trade profitability.
For me, my "soft" stops are often 2X ATR risking 3% of my capital. But >80% of the time, I'm out at 1%, that's the "real" stop. So everytime I trade, I'm relaxed as hell. The whole philosophy is, trade sizes where you need not be bothered about where your stop is, just a rough knowledge of where to get out is enough.
Logically, traders risking 5% per trade with stops can make it in the short run, but can you imagine continuously doing it all the time? After 20 trades, your psychological state goes awry and you start making mistakes and poof, there goes your account.
I do not profess profound knowledge and my opinions are merely opinions. I am merely sharing what I learnt over the years.
IMO, in order to be a profitable trader, a person should be able to NOT USE STOPS.
But that statement itself is superficial and does not expand much. There is something deeper.
What I mean by this is that, a trader should be trading such a small size that he can withstand anywhere between 2X to 5X ATR of losses.
Of course, this must be coupled with a frame work of knowing when to exit positions.
This being said, I totally agree that either big accounts or small contracts i.e. mini-micro FX are required in order for people to trade profitability.
For me, my "soft" stops are often 2X ATR risking 3% of my capital. But >80% of the time, I'm out at 1%, that's the "real" stop. So everytime I trade, I'm relaxed as hell. The whole philosophy is, trade sizes where you need not be bothered about where your stop is, just a rough knowledge of where to get out is enough.
Logically, traders risking 5% per trade with stops can make it in the short run, but can you imagine continuously doing it all the time? After 20 trades, your psychological state goes awry and you start making mistakes and poof, there goes your account.
I do not profess profound knowledge and my opinions are merely opinions. I am merely sharing what I learnt over the years.