Trading with a Stop Loss in the Futures Market is for Losers

Quote from fullautotrading:

Not a classy reply, and, above all, showing that you don't have even bothered reading the previous posts, while you are pretty fast at getting gratuitously unpolite.
(Which to me says already something about your intellectual level.)

The questions turns out to be pretty simple:
Can you imagine or create something (different from nothing) that works better than stops ?

If your answer is <b>no</b>, you'd better use stops.
(Just be aware that there are people that know and do better than that, but clearly one is free to cover his hears or shut down his mind and join the herd.)

If your answer is instead <b>yes</b>, prove it, by letting us know what works better than stops. I doubt you have an answer, and that entirely explains why you use stops. You simply don't have choice.

Tom
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these are the same guys that use technical analysis intuitively, basically they say they used past history to trade price, but at same time are too lazy to test what happened in the past. same guys who never tested whether stops really work as they say they did
never tested for volume.. light volume is bad for rally, how come strongest rally even stronger then 2000 is on light volume. Saying i go long breakouts, at same time never define what a breakout is.

"I know when i see it"
 
Quote from failed_trad3r:

the biggest problem is you still dont see your 2009 example sucks. lets say i have a system which tells me to go 100% short for 365*2 days in 2 years.

I go short march 6. I get stopped out. Next day it tells me to short. I go short. I stopped out. Repeat for the next 365*2 days minus 2 days.

See the problem? Your example sucks!
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Hey, asshole, you've been saying for about 3 days now that you "don't use stops" and "stops are for losers", well WTF is this:

"I go short march 6. I get stopped out."

"Next day it tells me to short. I go short. I stopped out."

Are you a fucking retard or are you deliberately trying to waste my time with bullshit?
 
Quote from fullautotrading:

Not everybody reasons at "single trade" level. Especially the quants who have replaced stops with different means. A strategy is a grand plan that encopassess many trades and manages the risk within a big picture.

Again, the point boils down to the fact that using stop at single trade level, is, for most people, just the alternative to nothing.

That is, they simply don't have any other choice.

Tom
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So what? And not every quant who has "replaced stops with different means" is profitable.

The idea that somehow not using a stop makes you better is only going to be true for very naive implementations of stop placement and movement. That example you used this morning had a fixed stop and target, which is hardly representative of what can be done with stops, especially when they are volatility-adjusted. I use stops and my profit factor is well above 2, pushing 2.5. I'm not about to stop using stops because that's the fashionable thing to do.

In fact, I'd argue that, as I do in my strategy, even better than your "strategic layers" is an implementation of a logic which enables, under certain conditions, both long and short trades on the same instrument, one triggered while the other is already in progress, each managed in accordance with their own price action dynamics. About 25% of the time I will find myself in a directional trade and a trade in the other direction will trigger and, as with all of the subsets of trades within my strategy, the expectancy of the combined trades is positive, so we're not talking about me flailing around trying to find "the trend" or some other newbie mistake, nor is it a "hedge". It's a sign of the ambiguous state of market sentiment, and, inevitably the market breaks one way, a stop is hit on the trade opposite to that direction and I ride the remainder of the new trend just as any other trade, using my trade management rules.
 
Quote from cornixforex:

I agree with you, that hedging orders instead of stops is definitely a safer defence from conflict of interest between trader and a broker.

But surprisingly, after making thousands of trades with very tight stops with the same broker as entries, I cannot recall a single case, when particular broker would rip me off (this is pretty easy to check in forex, because you can compare different data feeds).
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It doesn't. I trade through Oanda as well and i've place stops within 3-4 pips on a 10&30 sec chart setup and haven't been stopped.
 
Quote from fullautotrading:

Not a classy reply, and, above all, showing that you don't have even bothered reading the previous posts, while you are pretty fast at getting gratuitously unpolite.
(Which to me says already something about your intellectual level.)

The questions turns out to be pretty simple:
Can you imagine or create something (different from nothing) that works better than stops ?
More...


No, I see the confusion now. You completely changed the meaning of this thread. You changed "trading with stops in the futures market is for losers" to "i've got something that works better than stops".

That's not the point of the thread. The question plain and simple is can you trade profitably with stops? The answer is YES.

We're done. If you want to start a new thread.....be my guest. But we're not seeing eye to eye because you changed the meaning of this thread on your own.

Intellectual? I'm sorry i took the thread at face value. I don't understand how i can have an intellectual conversation with someone like you. I'd say one thing and you'd turn it into something completely different
 
Quote from logic_man:

...
The idea that somehow not using a stop makes you better is only going to be true for very naive implementations of stop placement and movement. That example you used this morning had a fixed stop and target, which is hardly representative of what can be done with stops, especially when they are volatility-adjusted. I use stops and my profit factor is well above 2, pushing 2.5. I'm not about to stop using stops because that's the fashionable thing to do.

In fact, I'd argue that, as I do in my strategy, even better than your "strategic layers" is an implementation of a logic which enables, under certain conditions, both long and short trades on the same instrument, one triggered while the other is already in progress, each managed in accordance with their own price action dynamics. About 25% of the time I will find myself in a directional trade and a trade in the other direction will trigger and, as with all of the subsets of trades within my strategy, the expectancy of the combined trades is positive, so we're not talking about me flailing around trying to find "the trend" or some other newbie mistake, nor is it a "hedge". It's a sign of the ambiguous state of market sentiment, and, inevitably the market breaks one way, a stop is hit on the trade opposite to that direction and I ride the remainder of the new trend just as any other trade, using my trade management rules.
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Well, i am quite pleased to hear that. You are already kind of "overlaying" strategies.
Which is already pretty far from the simple plan the dealing desk would like one to stick to: enter a trade, place a tp and a stop.

About our example, of course we can modify it introducing "volatility-adjusted" stops and measure exactly the outcome. Clearly, you must specify what is the rule to modify the stops (i might imagine you want to place them further away if you see more volatility (?) ).

[My whole point is in effect an invitation to always measure things accurately on our own, and not to simply rely on the words originally spread by people who do business by ripping others].

Tom
 
and another..... notice my lines. 30 sec B/O coincides with the 1hr timing.

.....trying to keep this "stop related" related still.

BEFORE....(I was hoping this would fail for sake of examples)
 

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AFTER....it didn't. stop @ B/E. however I closed this at roughly 8 pip profit.

Is this going to work every time? NO....however if TIMING of the trade lines up with S/R then you're in good shape.
 

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