Trading while trying to lose weight on Atkins

[LongShot]

Quote from alfonso:

You demand I see the forest, but the only problem is,
you don't really have any trees



Christ axe, the forest is obviously that low-fat diets are the healthier choice. While I don't think this point has conclusively, now and forever more, been proven, there is, I think it's clear, there is some very strong supporting evidence.
I really can't quite see why you're so hung up on whether it was the "Ornish protocal" (sounds like a spy thriller) that was followed. What the study did bear out, again not to a case-closed level, was that heart disease was reversed -- and the reversal, it is eminently logical to conclude, was most likely effected by the diet employed. I mean, there are probably God knows how many joggers and non-smokers out there that develop heart disease, so your insistence on the possible importance of these factors seems pretty weird.

Yes! Yes! Yes! Another that can reason! Yes!

Alfonso you are beautiful man!

 

[axeman]

It is NOT obvious that low-fat diets are the healthier choice.
The Mediteranean diets, the french diet, and the blubber
eating eskimo diets are high in fat, and are examples of
cultures with less heart disease than americans.

So you see, the "forest" you are proposing is exactly
what is being challenged by these "radical" diets.

"I really can't quite see why you're so hung up on whether it was the "Ornish protocal" "

Because longshot entered this thread with the END ALL answer
to all dieting, and made the ridiculous claim that the Ornish
diet was the ONLY, and yes he said **ONLY** diet with
objective definitive PROOF that it can reverse heart disease.

THEN he consistently failed to provide a SINGLE study which
used the Ornish protocol. Thats why.

"I mean, there are probably God knows how many joggers and non-smokers out there that develop heart disease, so your insistence on the possible importance of these factors seems pretty weird."

And there are countless French, Greeks and Eskimos who
eat tons of fat that DONT.

It is NOT a clear cut case. Diet and the human body is
extremly COMPLEX and I am not aware of ANYONE
who can claim they have all the answers.

And certainly not longshot.
He has failed to support ANY of his assertions to date.



peace

axeman

Quote from alfonso:

You demand I see the forest, but the only problem is,
you don't really have any trees



Christ axe, the forest is obviously that low-fat diets are the healthier choice. While I don't think this point has conclusively, now and forever more, been proven, there is, I think it's clear, there is some very strong supporting evidence.
I really can't quite see why you're so hung up on whether it was the "Ornish protocal" (sounds like a spy thriller) that was followed. What the study did bear out, again not to a case-closed level, was that heart disease was reversed -- and the reversal, it is eminently logical to conclude, was most likely effected by the diet employed. I mean, there are probably God knows how many joggers and non-smokers out there that develop heart disease, so your insistence on the possible importance of these factors seems pretty weird.

 

[dbphoenix]

Quote from alfonso:


What the study did bear out, again not to a case-closed level, was that heart disease was reversed -- and the reversal, it is eminently logical to conclude, was most likely effected by the diet employed. I mean, there are probably God knows how many joggers and non-smokers out there that develop heart disease, so your insistence on the possible importance of these factors seems pretty weird.

A great deal of what was believed to be "logical" has turned out to be nonsense. That's the whole point of scientific research. Axeman has been correct regarding the research design right down the line. Though if you've already made up your mind, you may find it difficult to understand that.

Yes, there are joggers and non-smokers out there who develop heart disease. But there are many on high-fat diets who don't. Again, that's the point of research.

 

[dbphoenix]

Incidentally, agreeing with LS is not a plus.

 

[gotnotelly]

Quote from alfonso:

Christ axe, the forest is obviously that low-fat diets are the healthier choice. While I don't think this point has conclusively, now and forever more, been proven, there is, I think it's clear, there is some very strong supporting evidence.
[/B]

I agree, and one of the largest providers of this evidence is the China Study. This massive body of work is essential study for anyone who wants to gather a little clarity on the subject of diet and health.

A couple of links about the China Study -

http://www.sdearthtimes.com/et1101/et1101s18.html

http://free.freespeech.org/nhn/china.html

 

[LongShot]

Quote from dbphoenix:



A great deal of what was believed to be "logical" has turned out to be nonsense.

So what? Beats the hell out of superstition and uninformed opinion!

 

[LongShot]

Quote from dbphoenix:



A great deal of what was believed to be "logical" has turned out to be nonsense. That's the whole point of scientific research. Axeman has been correct regarding the research design right down the line. Though if you've already made up your mind, you may find it difficult to understand that.

Yes, there are joggers and non-smokers out there who develop heart disease. But there are many on high-fat diets who don't. Again, that's the point of research.

EVERYONE eating high fat gets heart disease! E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E!!!!

THATS A FACT!!!

 

[axeman]

Alfonso,


Need I say more???

Surely you would never agree to such an absolute?
If this doesn't completely discredit longshots position,
then I don't know what does.


peace

axeman

Quote from LongShot:



EVERYONE eating high fat gets heart disease! E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E!!!!

THATS A FACT!!!

 

[dbphoenix]

Quote from gotnotelly:


I agree, and one of the largest providers of this evidence is the China Study. This massive body of work is essential study for anyone who wants to gather a little clarity on the subject of diet and health.

A couple of links about the China Study -

http://www.sdearthtimes.com/et1101/et1101s18.html

http://free.freespeech.org/nhn/china.html

Unfortunately, you have no way of knowing that by doing nothing more than reading the conclusions of this or any other study. You can be spoon-fed, or you can look at the data yourself, along with the research design, to determine what exactly is being tested and how the variables are being controlled.

Look, for example, at the Food in China link on the first page of your second link. Look also at the information on American Indian diets on the second page.

Since LS is simple-minded, he looks for simple answers. Unfortunately, this particular subject is not simple.

 

[EliteThink]

Quote from gotnotelly:



I agree, and one of the largest providers of this evidence is the China Study. This massive body of work is essential study for anyone who wants to gather a little clarity on the subject of diet and health.

A couple of links about the China Study -

http://www.sdearthtimes.com/et1101/et1101s18.html

http://free.freespeech.org/nhn/china.html

I still think their missing the point that western diets eat too much sugar including simple carbs. If this consumption of carbs is out of balance then fat will be degenerative as it points out. Otherwise a diet in low carbs will inhibit the negative aspects of fat and animal products in a diet, which historically is the normal state of the human diet.