Both daytrading and poker are zero-sum. If poker is gambling, so is daytrading.
Trading vs Playing poker, will it help with my trading?
- Thread starter magix3d
- Start date
Both daytrading and poker are zero-sum. If poker is gambling, so is daytrading.
I believe it's generally accepted these days that poker is a game of skill. If your skill level is higher than most of the other players, you can make decisions that are +EV. The difficult reality of poker is that you can make all the right decisions and still lose outcome after outcome. This is of course also true in trading. If, however, as you lose, you get smaller -- play at lower limits, rebuild, manage money correctly, you can improve. Likewise when you win -- you take shots at higher limits, within reason, and try to step it up a notch. Same thing in trading. It's the martingalers who increase bet size when they are down, or the non-observant players who don't realize that they are over their head competition-wise, that get clobbered.
Good post, particularly the comment about position size (R multiples). Buffett's game of choice though is bridge.
trading is all about patience. poker can help out with that. just try not to go all in as much in trading as you do in poker. with either you dont want to lose all of your chips.
Interesting post.
Very credited. Poker and trading are similar in many respects, though Poker is more by chance since you'll never know what cards you'll have. But they are both based on strategy and analysis. So it helps, but as weewilly said you cannot really do both. It takes tons of practice to get good at either poker or trading. You can do poker as a sidenote, but if you do trading, you've got to really invest the time till you have a good trading strategy.
I saw this subject on the site and decided to throw in my 2 bits worth for my first post here.
I successfully played poker for about 6 years. I didnt do it for a living by any means but it helped supplement my income. I dont want to play anymore.
I have been looking at getting into trading and have been paper trading a bit. The things that I feel I can bring over from poker to this point are.
1) In poker there are so many different games you can play and even though its all poker certain games will suit your style better than others. Maybe No Limit Holdem is the game that suits you best, perhaps tournaments, maybe sit and goes, maybe Omaha will give you the best edge. In the end maybe having a couple different games you can go to will be the best to switch things up when you get into a downtrend in your main game and you need to change your mindset.
Each game will require a totally different thought process and time restraints and I know for me it took a long time to find my "main game " and something else to fall back on when I needed to change things up.
I expect much the same for trading in that I will be searching for a long time before I can find what suits my time restraints and style. I think knowing this will help me not to get frustrated when something doesnt work out.
2) In poker you can choose the amount of info that you can take in. Basically its finding your optimal amount of hands per hour per winrate that gives you the most profit. I have friends that couldnt play more than 1 table at a time and I had a friend that played 24 tables at a time and could still chat on skype to me.(sic)
For me I could not really be profitable beyond 4 tables but when full tilt came in with rush poker I was able to handle 3 tables (usually just played 2 for about 800 hands per hour) and get in over 1000 hands per hour.
(when you fold in rush you are instantly transfered to a new table and dealt cards)
I think knowing the amount of information I can handle will help keep me be realistic on what I can do in trading and not to bite off more than I can chew.
3)Money management and swings.
I never had to deposit more than my first time in poker (actually got a free deposit/gift from prima poker back in the day so never did deposit) and this was due to strict rules and discipline. I was actually too conservative with a 100 buyin rule for No limit holdem but it gave me comfort.
Using a money management system that worked for me never let the downswings keeps me up at night. I hope I can translate that to trading.
4) Taking bad beats and running bad will effect everyone differently. I had a friend that would swear and curse at the computer and focus his rage on the guy who sucked out. The 24 table guy would just look at how the hand played out, take a note and use the info in future hands. Most players including myself fell somewhere in between depending on how I was running overall, the worse I was running the more emotions would come in to play.
I did learn when I was playing with too much emotion I could condition myself to quit. To me there was really no worse feeling than handing my $ to another player due to not folding because it felt like I was being " run over" when in reality I was just running bad.
Knowing this about myself should keep me out of trading because I need to get even for the day or something. At least I hope it will.
I dont know if I will be a profitable trader or not but I feel like poker taught me a lot of lessons that will translate to trading. I guess I will find out.
If you read this far, Thank You....and sorry about this post being so long. I am sure I could find more but I think these points are important.
Gerry
I successfully played poker for about 6 years. I didnt do it for a living by any means but it helped supplement my income. I dont want to play anymore.
I have been looking at getting into trading and have been paper trading a bit. The things that I feel I can bring over from poker to this point are.
1) In poker there are so many different games you can play and even though its all poker certain games will suit your style better than others. Maybe No Limit Holdem is the game that suits you best, perhaps tournaments, maybe sit and goes, maybe Omaha will give you the best edge. In the end maybe having a couple different games you can go to will be the best to switch things up when you get into a downtrend in your main game and you need to change your mindset.
Each game will require a totally different thought process and time restraints and I know for me it took a long time to find my "main game " and something else to fall back on when I needed to change things up.
I expect much the same for trading in that I will be searching for a long time before I can find what suits my time restraints and style. I think knowing this will help me not to get frustrated when something doesnt work out.
2) In poker you can choose the amount of info that you can take in. Basically its finding your optimal amount of hands per hour per winrate that gives you the most profit. I have friends that couldnt play more than 1 table at a time and I had a friend that played 24 tables at a time and could still chat on skype to me.(sic)
For me I could not really be profitable beyond 4 tables but when full tilt came in with rush poker I was able to handle 3 tables (usually just played 2 for about 800 hands per hour) and get in over 1000 hands per hour.
(when you fold in rush you are instantly transfered to a new table and dealt cards)
I think knowing the amount of information I can handle will help keep me be realistic on what I can do in trading and not to bite off more than I can chew.
3)Money management and swings.
I never had to deposit more than my first time in poker (actually got a free deposit/gift from prima poker back in the day so never did deposit) and this was due to strict rules and discipline. I was actually too conservative with a 100 buyin rule for No limit holdem but it gave me comfort.
Using a money management system that worked for me never let the downswings keeps me up at night. I hope I can translate that to trading.
4) Taking bad beats and running bad will effect everyone differently. I had a friend that would swear and curse at the computer and focus his rage on the guy who sucked out. The 24 table guy would just look at how the hand played out, take a note and use the info in future hands. Most players including myself fell somewhere in between depending on how I was running overall, the worse I was running the more emotions would come in to play.
I did learn when I was playing with too much emotion I could condition myself to quit. To me there was really no worse feeling than handing my $ to another player due to not folding because it felt like I was being " run over" when in reality I was just running bad.
Knowing this about myself should keep me out of trading because I need to get even for the day or something. At least I hope it will.
I dont know if I will be a profitable trader or not but I feel like poker taught me a lot of lessons that will translate to trading. I guess I will find out.
If you read this far, Thank You....and sorry about this post being so long. I am sure I could find more but I think these points are important.
Gerry
To win at Poker = To make more money on your better hands then your villain does and to loss less money on the worst hands then your villain does.
To win at Trading = To make more money on your winning trades then the average other trader does and to loss less money on your losing trades then the average other trader does.
www.fifthstreettrading.com
To win at Trading = To make more money on your winning trades then the average other trader does and to loss less money on your losing trades then the average other trader does.
www.fifthstreettrading.com
There is a not-so-secret strategy in No Limit poker, that mechanically employed by a newbie, has positive expectation even against an all pro roster table. It is called "small stack strategy".
The market is, by definition, a "calling station", as it'll take any bets you make against it with almost no limit to the size. That makes your bankroll by definition, a "small stack".
If you understand poker well, and "small stack strategy" in particular, it is reasonably "easy" to develop similar winning market strategies. Many uncorrelated "bets" or systems are possible under the same umbrella.:eek:
There you go, I just gave you a method to systematically create winning systems... I feel generous today!.
The market is, by definition, a "calling station", as it'll take any bets you make against it with almost no limit to the size. That makes your bankroll by definition, a "small stack".
If you understand poker well, and "small stack strategy" in particular, it is reasonably "easy" to develop similar winning market strategies. Many uncorrelated "bets" or systems are possible under the same umbrella.:eek:
There you go, I just gave you a method to systematically create winning systems... I feel generous today!.